Website: https://www.radianthealthsaunas.com/
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PDF BONUS DOWNLOAD #1: Radiant Health Sauna Protocol Recommendations

PDF BONUS DOWNLOAD #2: Sauna Investigation Guide

 

Webinar Video Transcribed

Michael:               All right, we are recording. Hello everybody. This is a take two. We did a Webinar with Mr. Randy Gumm from Radiant Health Saunas last week, but the video didn’t quite make it to the cutting board for the replay, the quality wasn’t very good, so we wanted to record this so that you have a high quality video to watch, and Randy, thanks again for making time to do this one more time.

Randy Gomm:   Well, I sure appreciate you having me back, Michael.

Michael:               The live audience is always fun. Hopefully we can be a little more concise and efficient here for the viewers that are going to be watching this one, and I seem to be glowing like an alien of sorts. That is Randy’s sauna there in the background, and then straight behind me, the red lights, we’re going to be talking about that with a couple of people pretty soon too. So that looks pretty cool. But today we’re talking infrared saunas, which is a topic that’s a pretty hot one in the functional medicine world, natural health space, but saunas as a whole, as a therapeutic tool for health, are not new. They are long history, long story of sauna use all over the world. So let’s just get into it a little bit here.

Michael:               My own story with how I found Randy and Radiant Health Saunas is my wife, which many of you probably know due to our recent autoimmune masterclass event that we held, had a couple autoimmune flares in the last couple of years, which turned out to be lupus, but at first we thought it was rheumatoid arthritis, and around the same time of her first flare, which involved a lot of joint pain, I was doing a lot of deep dive research into infrared saunas for the human longevity project film series that we produced in 2017/18, which led me to a colleague named Molly Meyer who, if Molly, if you see the video, thank you and hello, and she said, “Michael, I think I can save you a lot of time,” and I said, “I like that,” because I was also deep dive researching about 700 other topics. So I got on the phone with Molly and she shared how she had done about a year’s worth of research into infrared saunas and said, “I think you should talk to my friend Randy,” and she laid out all the different questions that one might want to ask about saunas and how to find the best ones, and then I talked to you, Randy, and then we ended up getting one of your saunas to help with Mira’s recovery, and we use it just about every day for the last two years. So that’s my story.

Michael:               You have your own story as to how this even came about to be your livelihood in making saunas. So if you could share that, I think that would be beneficial for the audience.

Randy Gomm:   I’d be happy to. Yeah, no, I do appreciate that Molly introduced us. That was a great connection. Yeah, no, I never had a great desire to build infrared saunas, sell infrared saunas. I had a bit of a health challenge. I was a bit of an adrenaline junkie on Whistler Mountain Ski Patrol, Mountain Rescue Teams, white water kayaker. And then I reached a point where I had difficulty walking a block. I couldn’t hold onto a telephone. I couldn’t write. Muscle, skeletal pain. And I was pretty mainstream, kind of naïve, and they said I had fibromyalgia, which is a label. And what turned out in the end, it turned out that I had toxin exposure and heavy metals. I had an adipose tissue sample done. And so it wouldn’t be fair to say all I did was infrared sauna to get better. I changed my diet. I worked on my stage four sleep, I did a bunch of things, but the sauna was the most effective on lowering my toxic load, reducing my pain level, allowing me to get back to work. So I got very passionate about the saunas.

Randy Gomm:   And it’s interesting because you know this was 20 years ago. And 20 years ago it was a couple of a sauna companies out there. Now there’s a whole bunch. And so the trick is, and with our team here, we try to educate people so that even if they don’t buy one of our saunas, if they ask the right question, they’re going to end up with healthier sauna. Because I find it very frustrating that there’s a fair bit of deception in this market. And people are buying something they might think is nontoxic, or they might think is low in EMF and it’s actually not. So it’s kind of the, should I go over a few things that people should look for?

Michael:               Yeah, that can work. I just want to commend your lack of pushy salesness. That’s something that drives me crazy. And for those who have followed Rebel Health Tribe for awhile, you probably have noticed I have quite an aversion to pushy sales things as well. And I’ve known Randy to be someone who genuinely just wants to educate people to make the best decision. And I think that that’s rare in today’s business world. But if you have confidence in the product that you make, I think an educated consumer is your best friend. So yeah.

Randy Gomm:   I appreciate you giving me the opportunity here, Michael. I used to sell a sauna that had ceramic heaters, and I sold them for probably about nine and a half years, but I sell to a lot of practitioners, and they would often complain about the hot spots and cold spots in the sauna. It was a big issue. So then I started looking into the carbon fiber, and my concern with carbon fiber was toxicity and electromagnetic fields and EF. And so there’s a bunch of things as I was concerned about, but I did like the fact that it’s a lower surface temperature, and when we lower the surface temperature of the heaters, you go more into the far infrared range. So that was kind of the benefits I was looking for. And I guess before I start into that, I realized far infrared people say, “Well was that like a microwave?”

Randy Gomm:   And you say, “Well, no, it’s a light wavelength. Very similar when you lay on the beach in the sand in the summer time, and you’re feeling that radiant heat coming up. That’s far infrared. The body peaks at about 9.4 microns. Laying beside somebody else, that’s also far infrared. So it’s something we’re exposed to a long time.

Randy Gomm:   And I did look at longterm use of far infrared. And to be fair, most of the studies were done on animals, rats and rabbits actually. And it showed an increased longevity and mobility. The studies that were done on people showed it improved a number of parameters in the immune system. So I couldn’t find anything that was a contraindication, except for maybe if there was a study showed a woman that were pregnant, and hot tub use, and it was in northern California. Raising the core temperature, it would be adverse to do that. So I’d advise a pregnant woman not to use infrared sauna, because you are heating the core temperature.

Randy Gomm:   So getting back to the questions, when I was looking for the carbon fiber, eventually we ended up with one that has great coverage and is nontoxic, and a lot of companies can state their nontoxic. What you need to ask for is, is there any independent VOC testing? And it stands for volatile organic compounds, and they measure parts per million. So the trick is to make sure that they’ve tested a brand new sauna, and that that testing lab isn’t just testing a bottle of air or something that was sent to them. Have the testing lab employees set up and test a brand new sauna. So that way you as the consumer can be assured that you’re in a nontoxic environment.

Randy Gomm:   The other thing to look for, and I know it continually gets addressed, is EMF, electromagnetic fields. It’s something that we’re all exposed to, but it drops off dramatically with distance. So if, let’s say, I’m not suggesting don’t want to own a microwave, but let’s say someone went up to a microwave within a couple of inches, it measured 30 40 million milligrams, but if you back off two feet and drops down to zero. The problem with an infrared sauna usually are sitting within about an inch, inch and a half of the heaters. So you don’t have the luxury of backing off. So that’s why it’s so important to make sure it’s very low EMF. And our levels would average 0.3 milligrams at point of body contact. And so when I say point of body contact, that’s the wooden slats [inaudible] So if a company is, if you asked for the EMF testing, then look at it closely to make sure they haven’t just taken the heaters and measured at the lab or measured at the warehouse.

Randy Gomm:   You want the independent lab to be testing the sauna at point to body contact, because that’s the environment you’re sitting in. It’s the same for electrical fields as well. They’re measured in volts per meter. You also want that down below building biology standard. The two issues are EMF and electrical fields. VOC’s are going to probably only cost you about $2,000.00 to have your whole sauna tested for VOC’s. It’s not this huge expense a company can’t afford. Many companies online they can say they’re non toxic but I purchased three of the cheaper ones, just trying to figure what was going on in the industry.

Randy Gomm:   It’s fascinating, because they weren’t in the micro wave length they were stating. They were much higher in EMF than they were stating, almost off the chart. They look like real wood but what we did, is we took a crow bar and we pried off the wood on the inside and two were using MDF board, multiple density fiber board is a frame which off gases formaldehyde, and the other one was using ply wood. It’s really frustrating, and I feel bad. Sometimes I deal with people with limited funds, and on disability and they’re buying these saunas for their health and they have no idea. They look similar. Many out there do look similar.

Randy Gomm:   Initially we had a little bit of a problem with it being a little bit cool below the waist, so we pushed the sauna on the side heaters in front of the bench and down to the floor towards the front wall, and we put a heater under the bench itself and we also put a heater in the floor. I didn’t like the idea of the heater in the floor being exposed to the sweat so, we put a ceramic tile over top of that just so that way you’re not going to be sweating out and then off gassing, because it drops into the heater, so that works out well.

Randy Gomm:   I work with a lot of practitioners and because of that, they give me great feedback which I appreciate.

Michael:               Yeah. I love the heaters on the bottom. The ones I was using in the spa, because Mira and I were going to a local place to use theirs a few times a week, which it was like a dream to get this thing in our house after going through that but, it didn’t have that. It didn’t have the heaters. Theirs was bigger than ours, so I would lay down and then that was fine, but if I did sit, my feet and calves would be almost cold. They would feel cold, because I think the rest of you is so warm, so I think it kind of throws off the temperature sensation.

Michael:               I don’t know if you can see but there are definitely heaters under the seat. There’s heaters on the side on the bottom too, and then the floor panel gets very warm. My bottom of my feet, I’ve learned, are pretty sensitive, so I need to have a towel there as a buffer between the two. So, you’re saying the carbon fiber heating units give a more even distribution of heat than the ceramic?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. And their surface temperature is lower too, and with kind of [inaudible] as far as the micro wave length, you move further in the far infrared range, and I did look at… there’s stuff out there on near infrared and full spectrum. The research on the infrared, and I know you’re going to have the gentlemen, your friend, in a podcast talking about it. It’s great, and that [inaudible] shows tissue repair, wound healing, mitochondria function. I’m a great fan but, none of the research applies that I can find, if I go into PubMed and Medline, none of the research applies to infrared saunas. All the research papers that I see are in the far infrared range, and so to me I think a PDF I provided you, that maybe you can provide your viewers and it shows the reasons we go through as far as why the far infrared is the better way to go.

Randy Gomm:   It’s interesting because, as more stuff comes out, there’s an arthritis study, and there’s one with congestive heart failure, and there’s one with fibromyalgia. There’s a few different studies out on what the far infrared saunas. What I’ve been pleased lately is more stuff that’s coming out with heat shock proteins. I think Dr. Patrick Wanderidge introduced it and there’s more research done. It reduces oxidative stress, and it scavenges free radicals. It’s been fascinating how things evolve. Before I used to sell, just to people with toxin issues, heavy metals or Lyme disease, and now I’m selling a lot more to personal trainers, and just generally to people that are looking to improve their health. So, it’s funny how things evolve as people get more educated.

Michael:               You’ve seen the market shift quite a bit since you’ve started making saunas as far as who is buying them?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. The people with health problems are still so into buying them. What I’m seeing now is healthier people that don’t have a problem are using it as a preventative measure, or they’re using it for sports performance or things like that, which I really hadn’t seen before. So, I’ve been kind of pleasantly surprised. I always thought I was an exception. I have this label of fibromyalgia but I had a toxin problem, and I went to my first Functional Medicine Conference in 1996.

Randy Gomm:   It was fascinating. They used as an example, they said, “Here’s the rain barrel, and here’s the persons toxic load over their lifetime,” And they said, “Sometimes it’s a final trigger that puts somebody over. It could be a car accident, it can be mercury in the mouth, it can be a pesticide exposure, whatever, overflows the top of the rain barrel and puts pressure on the immune system, the Thyroid, the digestive system.”

Randy Gomm:   That’s when the light came on for me saying, “Hey, I’m not the only one that would benefit from detoxifying.” I was exposed as a firefighter. Another fellow went off probably 6 months after me, and that’s when I made the connection. If he hadn’t gone off, I don’t know if I would have made the connection, so that’s when I had the adipose tissue sample. It shows you though, the toxic load in everybody is a lot higher than it should be. Anything we can do to bring that down is beneficial for all kinds of things.

Michael:               I’ve never even thought about that with firefighters. I bet they’re exposed to tons of stuff.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. Well, what they’ve shown now, it’s the same as you can take devices, there’s drugs now that can go through the skin. It’s the same thing. We know the absorption both in and out is not good.

Michael:               And flame retardants are super toxic.

Randy Gomm:   Yep.

Michael:               That’s what I was thinking because, I’m sure the suits are just covered in flame retardants, as well as anything else they use.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. It’s something that concerns me because, there’s not really a lot of effort. They’ll recognize heart disease, and cancer among firefighters but they don’t really say there’s anything you can do about it.

Michael:               Right. Well, heads up to firefighters out there, look into supporting your detox pathways. You mentioned athletic recovery, and I mentioned this during the webinar and I’ll mention it again here, is when we first got this, I was training pretty heavily in the sport of boxing. I was 36, 37, that’s kind of old to be boxing, and I hurt everywhere all the time and I would say that a good sauna session, a good solid 40 minutes in there would reduce my soreness probably in half when I had soreness from training.

Michael:               I definitely noticed a difference when I would use it and when I wouldn’t, and I just had to make sure to stay extremely hydrated because, the sport is dehydrating and if I’m going to be doing a dehydrating sport, going in the sauna, but I take electrolytes, drink a ton of water.

Michael:               We’re going to have two PDF’s that are available right below this video, and one of them is your sauna protocol that I believe you mentioned electrolytes and hydration in there, and then the other one is a list of what to look for in a sauna and questions to ask, correct?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. Exactly. It’s pretty basic. What I’m hoping actually, if consumers will keep asking those questions and then look really closely at data that’s given to you, I’m hoping it will make some of the companies clean up their act. Make them a little bit more accountable, and that’s what we all want, is that if someone is buying something, putting that kind of money out, you want them to be sitting in a healthy environment, right?

Michael:               I enjoy putting that kind of pressure on companies. I’ll be a happy mouth piece for that. I don’t think I mentioned this on the last one but, I’m a fellow adrenaline junkie. I spent three summers sky diving in the early 2000’s. [crosstalk]

Michael:               Well, skiing and snowboarding. Snowboarding has been horrific for me. I’m 0 for 3 with 2 concussions, so I’ve retired from snow sports, but I definitely was right there with you as far as the needs for speed and excitement.

Randy Gomm:   It never seems to go away though Michael, you think it would, but..

Michael:               I still see a lot of my friends who are in that sport post things, and I get a little, you know, you get the itch. But that one too, the smell on the plain all the time is that jet fuel, I wonder. I could have used this then, I’m sure I was exposed to tons of stuff every day. The big running joke is I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning. They steal the line from Apocalypse Now, the movie, and there’s t-shirts that say that, and it’s true, the [inaudible] always smells like jet fuel, so for my skydiver friends out there, check for a sauna.

Randy Gomm:   The other thing that I was going to mention is the wood. I experimented with the wood. Pewter is a great wood, antifungal, antibacterial. Sometimes people react to the turbines in the cedar. Twice I had to actually pull it out of someones home, even though they didn’t react to the cedar initially, but they did after time.

Randy Gomm:   Then I experimented with Basswood and spruce, and poplar. All good wood as far as people not reacting to, but they didn’t seem to handle the heat that well over time, and sometimes crack and check. What we did is we were using Canadian Hemlock, but we do something a little different is we kiln dried it to 68% moisture content, so they call it furniture grade, so because of that it doesn’t off gas and I’ve never had anybody react to it, and it stands up really well. We sold it to over a thousand practitioners, commercial places and they get a lot of use. If they can handle that then you won’t have any problem for your home.

Randy Gomm:   One thing I wanted to mention, even just generally talking about general sauna use and benefits. I was very pleased, this has nothing to do with infrared saunas, but just sauna use, I was very pleased to have read a few of the research papers on the Finish Study, have they mentioned to that to you before Michael? They took 23,000 middle aged men and over a 20 year period, so that’s a good data base. Then they looked at the ones that used the sauna two or three times a week, versus once a week, and four times and more versus once. What they discovered is, the longevity, it reduced mortality by 24% if the use is somewhere between two or three times a week and 40% if you used a sauna four times a week or more. To me, that was just like, “Wow. That should be in the news.” It wasn’t, it barely hit the news.

Randy Gomm:   If someone had either a drug or a herb and you say, “Wow, you do that four times a week and increase your longevity.” And they were talking cancer, heart disease.

Michael:               There would be a lot of people in line for that pill.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. Exactly. So, it’s nice. Now, to be fair, this is done with a conventional sauna but the principal is still the same. You’re heating up the core temperature. You’re sweating profusely. They also took the same data, the same group and they looked at Dementia and Alzheimer and one it reduced by 65% and the other was by I think 64%.

Michael:               Wow.

Randy Gomm:   I don’t know if that’s because of heat shock proteins or because of lowering the heavy metals but, it’s fascinating.

Michael:               It could be also potentially increased circulation and movement of things in the body, because warmer, that’s what a fever is, warmer temperature speeds up biological processes too.

Randy Gomm:   Exactly.

Michael:               Now this is all just theory. I’m not a doctor, this is all just popping into my head, but biological processes include cleaning out the brain. What happens with Alzheimer and dementia a lot of time is they’re finding the toxins aren’t cleared out of the brain. By toxins I mean cellular waste as much as anything else.

Randy Gomm:   And high fat content in the brain, and the toxic load can be high.

Michael:               Okay. That makes sense then. So, four days a week is what you said, and that was around a 40% increase?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. The interesting thing is they compared to doing it once a week, and I thought… as a control, I was a [inaudible] before and you always had a control. Why did the control be used once a week? Why didn’t they use it zero times a week? Right? The reason was, because of the 23,000 middle aged men in Finland, they could only find eight people that didn’t use the sauna at all, and I cracked up. That’s why they use it as one.

Michael:               That’s funny. As someone from Chicago, I can understand why people in Finland would be glued to their saunas. You’re Canadian but the BC is not the frigid wasteland that the Great Lakes area and Finland can be, so I would have done just about anything to have this thing when I lived in the Midwest winters. I probably would have overdosed on it. I probably would have just gotten a giant one and made a bed in there.

Randy Gomm:   One thing I wanted to point out, we talked about electrolytes, as you increase your sauna you definitely want to increase your electrolyte use, whether you drink coconut water or get some sort of electrolyte mix, most of them aren’t high enough in magnesium, so you can take oral magnesium or transdermal magnesium. The other thing to keep in mind, if someone is quite toxic. Let’s say someone has Lyme disease or heavy metals or fibromyalgia, or any of the labels, go slow. They may start off doing the sauna every three days. They may do that for three or four weeks and after they can handle that, every other day for three or four weeks, and then daily. If not, what was happening is sometimes people would feel really good and then at about day four they have a major reaction, they had flu like symptoms.

Randy Gomm:   My theory with this is you’re mobilizing 90% of your toxins and heavy metals to your skin, but to be fair if you have to compromise phase two detox pathways, it’s going to make it worse. It’s just a figure I’ve made up, but let’s say a certain small percentage of [inaudible] deal with and you have these compromised phase two detox pathways, it’s going to make it worse. So, you go a little bit slower, we’ve had way better success.

Michael:               Oops. Sorry, I was on mute there. I said that’s interesting. I did get three emails after the webinar asking me about any specific electrolytes that I use or recommend and Mira and I both use one from Seeking Health, which is Dr. Ben Lynch’s company. It’s just a powdered electrolyte and then we both use topical magnesium, and take a supplemental magnesium threonate, which is more for brain function. So, that’s kind of our approach for that. I put a pinch of sea salt in, we mix the electrolytes with a pinch of sea salt and we top it with a little coconut water if we have it around, but we make one of those drinks about once a day, and I haven’t noticed much dehydration on our end.

Randy Gomm:   I sometimes will chew on Dulse, it’s a sea vegetable. It’s an acquired taste.

Michael:               That’s a brave chew.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. In transdermal magnesium, occasionally people get a rash from it, so you might want to put on a small patch on your skin to make sure you don’t get a rash. I don’t want to suggest and someone lathers themselves..

Michael:               It can. It can be itchy, turn a little red. The oils or the sprays and the oils, I’ve noticed are a little bit more… we have a lotion that Mira likes a lot better that’s by Ancient Minerals which I think is owned by Redmonds Salt Company. That’s a look into our cabinet, but that’s what we do for the electrolytes.

Michael:               You covered the heating units, the wood. You talked about the testing and how companies were only testing the heating elements outside of the machine, not inside of the sauna and that’s definitely something to look for, as how is that tested?

Randy Gomm:   I think the reason for that is because if you test it outside, you’re not including electrical connection and wiring. Electrical connections is often at the high HTMF, so you want to have it tested in the environment that you’re going to be sitting in.

Michael:               Yeah. When I looked into that one, that was one that I saw a lot of companies that would ship their heating unit out to a lab and say, “This makes zero EMF,” or, “This has zero off gassing,” and it’s like how about all the wood, how about all the… I mean, I know about particle board and that type of stuff and if you… we had a couch that had some particle board, some of that and Mira got headaches when we first got it, and that wasn’t being heated to 140 degrees, which would exponentially increase the amount of stuff coming off of it. When you see the $500.00 Sauna at Costco or Sams Club or something, there’s probably a reason for that, and real wood costs a lot more than fiber. I don’t know what that’s called? What is it called? You had an abbreviation for it.

Randy Gomm:   Multiple Density Fiber Board. MDF board.

Michael:               Yeah. So that’s like particle board or some sort of plywood that has that heat in it, you mentioned formaldehyde and it off gases something fierce, so I definitely would not sit in a box made of that and then turn up the heat. People end up getting more sick than they were to begin with to use the sauna.

Randy Gomm:   Exactly.

Michael:               I think that covers most of the questions that I had. You are extending a generous offer to our Rebel Health Tribe audience, if you want to share that with them.

Randy Gomm:   I would be happy to. Anybody that mentions Rebel Health Tribe, we’d be happy to give them $500.00 dollars off of the retail price. If you call in just mention that and we usually try to subsidize a lot of shipping as well. Just mention that and we’d be happy to give you that discount. The saunas are very easy to put together. It would usually take two people, an hour, an hour and a half. It’s not like an Ikea piece of furniture where you’re going to be muttering my name under your breath, okay? They’re pretty easy to put together.

Michael:               I’m terrible at building things and putting things together and Mira and I were able to do it in a very small apartment that we were living in, and then we moved when she got sick last year, we moved from there to here and I was really nervous about taking it apart and putting it back together, and I reached out to you to get the instructions again, because in the move I couldn’t find the instructions. I actually barely ended up even using the instructions. It was very easy to take it apart, and then I had a friend help me and we put it back together in like ten minutes. It’s really just the big front side, side, back, bottom and then there’s the bench. It’s really only about eight, nine pieces and then you’ve even color coated the wiring so people like me can put it together.

Randy Gomm:   It draws about a two person unit, I guess depending on where you are in the country, it would probably cost you 13, 14 cents an hour to run, so you’re not going to notice a difference on your hydro bill.

Michael:               Yeah. I think we noticed about five bucks. It was about a five dollar increase, and we use it all the time. The one person and the two person use a regular standard plug, and then there’s a small corner model that also..

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. It just plugs into a normal 15 amp circuit. As soon as you go to the larger units, you need a 20 amp circuit which involves 12 gauge wiring, so you’d have to find out how far you are away from the power box.

Michael:               And that’s with the three prongs, right? Well they all have three prongs.

Randy Gomm:   One prong vertical and the other horizontal.

Michael:               Oh, it’s like the one that washing machines plug into, right?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah.

Michael:               Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, this one is a two person, you can kind of see it there. It’s definitely big enough for us. We can both sit in there, or it’s big enough to sit across with your back up against one of the heating units. I’ve been in saunas where the wood on the back gets too hot for my skin. Again, my skin is pretty sensitive to heat, so is my mouth, like hot tea, hot coffee I can’t do. I was concerned about that and I’ve been in saunas where I have to wear a towel on my back to be able to touch the wood and your wood doesn’t get very hot. It’s warm, you can feel it but it’s not hot. You can sit across it, you can sit facing forward. We were concerned with that, because the ones at the spa where they’re a little bigger and we would always lay down and I was like, “Should we get the bigger one so we can lay down?” But now that I don’t have that, it doesn’t matter.

Randy Gomm:   That’s good. You’ll find that having the heat right against the back, it really heats up the core temperature fast.

Michael:               Yeah. I love it. I sit right up against it. Thank you for the generous discount for our audience. Right below the video, you will find the phone number to call. I would highly recommend just calling. We’ll have a link to the website too, but I would recommend check out their website, if you want to talk saunas, call them. Randy and his team can answer all your questions, give you whatever information you need. They’re all just as friendly as he is, and very generous with their time and information. They’re happy to answer any questions that way. It’s much faster and more efficient than email back and forth and things like that. So, you can call them, go to their website, check that out. $500.00 discount, all you have to do is mention Rebel Health Tribe. There’s no coupon codes, there’s no special gimmick of any kind. Just mention us, mention the webinar, mention me, anything like that and you’ll get the discount there.

Michael:               Also, right below the phone number and the link to the website, we have the two PDF’s, the Randy’s recommended sauna usage protocol and then also the questions to ask when looking at other saunas. Like you said, as long as people follow those recommendations and ask those questions, whether they get one of your saunas or another sauna, they’re going to wind up with a better product than they would if they weren’t educated.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. That’d be great. I sure appreciate you having me on Michael. It’s been a pleasure.

Michael:               Yeah. It’s always fun. Thank you so much Randy.

Randy Gomm:   Thanks again.

PDF BONUS DOWNLOAD #2: Sauna Investigation Guide

 

Webinar Video Transcribed

Michael:               All right, we are recording. Hello everybody. This is a take two. We did a Webinar with Mr. Randy Gumm from Radiant Health Saunas last week, but the video didn’t quite make it to the cutting board for the replay, the quality wasn’t very good, so we wanted to record this so that you have a high quality video to watch, and Randy, thanks again for making time to do this one more time.

Randy Gomm:   Well, I sure appreciate you having me back, Michael.

Michael:               The live audience is always fun. Hopefully we can be a little more concise and efficient here for the viewers that are going to be watching this one, and I seem to be glowing like an alien of sorts. That is Randy’s sauna there in the background, and then straight behind me, the red lights, we’re going to be talking about that with a couple of people pretty soon too. So that looks pretty cool. But today we’re talking infrared saunas, which is a topic that’s a pretty hot one in the functional medicine world, natural health space, but saunas as a whole, as a therapeutic tool for health, are not new. They are long history, long story of sauna use all over the world. So let’s just get into it a little bit here.

Michael:               My own story with how I found Randy and Radiant Health Saunas is my wife, which many of you probably know due to our recent autoimmune masterclass event that we held, had a couple autoimmune flares in the last couple of years, which turned out to be lupus, but at first we thought it was rheumatoid arthritis, and around the same time of her first flare, which involved a lot of joint pain, I was doing a lot of deep dive research into infrared saunas for the human longevity project film series that we produced in 2017/18, which led me to a colleague named Molly Meyer who, if Molly, if you see the video, thank you and hello, and she said, “Michael, I think I can save you a lot of time,” and I said, “I like that,” because I was also deep dive researching about 700 other topics. So I got on the phone with Molly and she shared how she had done about a year’s worth of research into infrared saunas and said, “I think you should talk to my friend Randy,” and she laid out all the different questions that one might want to ask about saunas and how to find the best ones, and then I talked to you, Randy, and then we ended up getting one of your saunas to help with Mira’s recovery, and we use it just about every day for the last two years. So that’s my story.

Michael:               You have your own story as to how this even came about to be your livelihood in making saunas. So if you could share that, I think that would be beneficial for the audience.

Randy Gomm:   I’d be happy to. Yeah, no, I do appreciate that Molly introduced us. That was a great connection. Yeah, no, I never had a great desire to build infrared saunas, sell infrared saunas. I had a bit of a health challenge. I was a bit of an adrenaline junkie on Whistler Mountain Ski Patrol, Mountain Rescue Teams, white water kayaker. And then I reached a point where I had difficulty walking a block. I couldn’t hold onto a telephone. I couldn’t write. Muscle, skeletal pain. And I was pretty mainstream, kind of naïve, and they said I had fibromyalgia, which is a label. And what turned out in the end, it turned out that I had toxin exposure and heavy metals. I had an adipose tissue sample done. And so it wouldn’t be fair to say all I did was infrared sauna to get better. I changed my diet. I worked on my stage four sleep, I did a bunch of things, but the sauna was the most effective on lowering my toxic load, reducing my pain level, allowing me to get back to work. So I got very passionate about the saunas.

Randy Gomm:   And it’s interesting because you know this was 20 years ago. And 20 years ago it was a couple of a sauna companies out there. Now there’s a whole bunch. And so the trick is, and with our team here, we try to educate people so that even if they don’t buy one of our saunas, if they ask the right question, they’re going to end up with healthier sauna. Because I find it very frustrating that there’s a fair bit of deception in this market. And people are buying something they might think is nontoxic, or they might think is low in EMF and it’s actually not. So it’s kind of the, should I go over a few things that people should look for?

Michael:               Yeah, that can work. I just want to commend your lack of pushy salesness. That’s something that drives me crazy. And for those who have followed Rebel Health Tribe for awhile, you probably have noticed I have quite an aversion to pushy sales things as well. And I’ve known Randy to be someone who genuinely just wants to educate people to make the best decision. And I think that that’s rare in today’s business world. But if you have confidence in the product that you make, I think an educated consumer is your best friend. So yeah.

Randy Gomm:   I appreciate you giving me the opportunity here, Michael. I used to sell a sauna that had ceramic heaters, and I sold them for probably about nine and a half years, but I sell to a lot of practitioners, and they would often complain about the hot spots and cold spots in the sauna. It was a big issue. So then I started looking into the carbon fiber, and my concern with carbon fiber was toxicity and electromagnetic fields and EF. And so there’s a bunch of things as I was concerned about, but I did like the fact that it’s a lower surface temperature, and when we lower the surface temperature of the heaters, you go more into the far infrared range. So that was kind of the benefits I was looking for. And I guess before I start into that, I realized far infrared people say, “Well was that like a microwave?”

Randy Gomm:   And you say, “Well, no, it’s a light wavelength. Very similar when you lay on the beach in the sand in the summer time, and you’re feeling that radiant heat coming up. That’s far infrared. The body peaks at about 9.4 microns. Laying beside somebody else, that’s also far infrared. So it’s something we’re exposed to a long time.

Randy Gomm:   And I did look at longterm use of far infrared. And to be fair, most of the studies were done on animals, rats and rabbits actually. And it showed an increased longevity and mobility. The studies that were done on people showed it improved a number of parameters in the immune system. So I couldn’t find anything that was a contraindication, except for maybe if there was a study showed a woman that were pregnant, and hot tub use, and it was in northern California. Raising the core temperature, it would be adverse to do that. So I’d advise a pregnant woman not to use infrared sauna, because you are heating the core temperature.

Randy Gomm:   So getting back to the questions, when I was looking for the carbon fiber, eventually we ended up with one that has great coverage and is nontoxic, and a lot of companies can state their nontoxic. What you need to ask for is, is there any independent VOC testing? And it stands for volatile organic compounds, and they measure parts per million. So the trick is to make sure that they’ve tested a brand new sauna, and that that testing lab isn’t just testing a bottle of air or something that was sent to them. Have the testing lab employees set up and test a brand new sauna. So that way you as the consumer can be assured that you’re in a nontoxic environment.

Randy Gomm:   The other thing to look for, and I know it continually gets addressed, is EMF, electromagnetic fields. It’s something that we’re all exposed to, but it drops off dramatically with distance. So if, let’s say, I’m not suggesting don’t want to own a microwave, but let’s say someone went up to a microwave within a couple of inches, it measured 30 40 million milligrams, but if you back off two feet and drops down to zero. The problem with an infrared sauna usually are sitting within about an inch, inch and a half of the heaters. So you don’t have the luxury of backing off. So that’s why it’s so important to make sure it’s very low EMF. And our levels would average 0.3 milligrams at point of body contact. And so when I say point of body contact, that’s the wooden slats [inaudible] So if a company is, if you asked for the EMF testing, then look at it closely to make sure they haven’t just taken the heaters and measured at the lab or measured at the warehouse.

Randy Gomm:   You want the independent lab to be testing the sauna at point to body contact, because that’s the environment you’re sitting in. It’s the same for electrical fields as well. They’re measured in volts per meter. You also want that down below building biology standard. The two issues are EMF and electrical fields. VOC’s are going to probably only cost you about $2,000.00 to have your whole sauna tested for VOC’s. It’s not this huge expense a company can’t afford. Many companies online they can say they’re non toxic but I purchased three of the cheaper ones, just trying to figure what was going on in the industry.

Randy Gomm:   It’s fascinating, because they weren’t in the micro wave length they were stating. They were much higher in EMF than they were stating, almost off the chart. They look like real wood but what we did, is we took a crow bar and we pried off the wood on the inside and two were using MDF board, multiple density fiber board is a frame which off gases formaldehyde, and the other one was using ply wood. It’s really frustrating, and I feel bad. Sometimes I deal with people with limited funds, and on disability and they’re buying these saunas for their health and they have no idea. They look similar. Many out there do look similar.

Randy Gomm:   Initially we had a little bit of a problem with it being a little bit cool below the waist, so we pushed the sauna on the side heaters in front of the bench and down to the floor towards the front wall, and we put a heater under the bench itself and we also put a heater in the floor. I didn’t like the idea of the heater in the floor being exposed to the sweat so, we put a ceramic tile over top of that just so that way you’re not going to be sweating out and then off gassing, because it drops into the heater, so that works out well.

Randy Gomm:   I work with a lot of practitioners and because of that, they give me great feedback which I appreciate.

Michael:               Yeah. I love the heaters on the bottom. The ones I was using in the spa, because Mira and I were going to a local place to use theirs a few times a week, which it was like a dream to get this thing in our house after going through that but, it didn’t have that. It didn’t have the heaters. Theirs was bigger than ours, so I would lay down and then that was fine, but if I did sit, my feet and calves would be almost cold. They would feel cold, because I think the rest of you is so warm, so I think it kind of throws off the temperature sensation.

Michael:               I don’t know if you can see but there are definitely heaters under the seat. There’s heaters on the side on the bottom too, and then the floor panel gets very warm. My bottom of my feet, I’ve learned, are pretty sensitive, so I need to have a towel there as a buffer between the two. So, you’re saying the carbon fiber heating units give a more even distribution of heat than the ceramic?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. And their surface temperature is lower too, and with kind of [inaudible] as far as the micro wave length, you move further in the far infrared range, and I did look at… there’s stuff out there on near infrared and full spectrum. The research on the infrared, and I know you’re going to have the gentlemen, your friend, in a podcast talking about it. It’s great, and that [inaudible] shows tissue repair, wound healing, mitochondria function. I’m a great fan but, none of the research applies that I can find, if I go into PubMed and Medline, none of the research applies to infrared saunas. All the research papers that I see are in the far infrared range, and so to me I think a PDF I provided you, that maybe you can provide your viewers and it shows the reasons we go through as far as why the far infrared is the better way to go.

Randy Gomm:   It’s interesting because, as more stuff comes out, there’s an arthritis study, and there’s one with congestive heart failure, and there’s one with fibromyalgia. There’s a few different studies out on what the far infrared saunas. What I’ve been pleased lately is more stuff that’s coming out with heat shock proteins. I think Dr. Patrick Wanderidge introduced it and there’s more research done. It reduces oxidative stress, and it scavenges free radicals. It’s been fascinating how things evolve. Before I used to sell, just to people with toxin issues, heavy metals or Lyme disease, and now I’m selling a lot more to personal trainers, and just generally to people that are looking to improve their health. So, it’s funny how things evolve as people get more educated.

Michael:               You’ve seen the market shift quite a bit since you’ve started making saunas as far as who is buying them?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. The people with health problems are still so into buying them. What I’m seeing now is healthier people that don’t have a problem are using it as a preventative measure, or they’re using it for sports performance or things like that, which I really hadn’t seen before. So, I’ve been kind of pleasantly surprised. I always thought I was an exception. I have this label of fibromyalgia but I had a toxin problem, and I went to my first Functional Medicine Conference in 1996.

Randy Gomm:   It was fascinating. They used as an example, they said, “Here’s the rain barrel, and here’s the persons toxic load over their lifetime,” And they said, “Sometimes it’s a final trigger that puts somebody over. It could be a car accident, it can be mercury in the mouth, it can be a pesticide exposure, whatever, overflows the top of the rain barrel and puts pressure on the immune system, the Thyroid, the digestive system.”

Randy Gomm:   That’s when the light came on for me saying, “Hey, I’m not the only one that would benefit from detoxifying.” I was exposed as a firefighter. Another fellow went off probably 6 months after me, and that’s when I made the connection. If he hadn’t gone off, I don’t know if I would have made the connection, so that’s when I had the adipose tissue sample. It shows you though, the toxic load in everybody is a lot higher than it should be. Anything we can do to bring that down is beneficial for all kinds of things.

Michael:               I’ve never even thought about that with firefighters. I bet they’re exposed to tons of stuff.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. Well, what they’ve shown now, it’s the same as you can take devices, there’s drugs now that can go through the skin. It’s the same thing. We know the absorption both in and out is not good.

Michael:               And flame retardants are super toxic.

Randy Gomm:   Yep.

Michael:               That’s what I was thinking because, I’m sure the suits are just covered in flame retardants, as well as anything else they use.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. It’s something that concerns me because, there’s not really a lot of effort. They’ll recognize heart disease, and cancer among firefighters but they don’t really say there’s anything you can do about it.

Michael:               Right. Well, heads up to firefighters out there, look into supporting your detox pathways. You mentioned athletic recovery, and I mentioned this during the webinar and I’ll mention it again here, is when we first got this, I was training pretty heavily in the sport of boxing. I was 36, 37, that’s kind of old to be boxing, and I hurt everywhere all the time and I would say that a good sauna session, a good solid 40 minutes in there would reduce my soreness probably in half when I had soreness from training.

Michael:               I definitely noticed a difference when I would use it and when I wouldn’t, and I just had to make sure to stay extremely hydrated because, the sport is dehydrating and if I’m going to be doing a dehydrating sport, going in the sauna, but I take electrolytes, drink a ton of water.

Michael:               We’re going to have two PDF’s that are available right below this video, and one of them is your sauna protocol that I believe you mentioned electrolytes and hydration in there, and then the other one is a list of what to look for in a sauna and questions to ask, correct?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. Exactly. It’s pretty basic. What I’m hoping actually, if consumers will keep asking those questions and then look really closely at data that’s given to you, I’m hoping it will make some of the companies clean up their act. Make them a little bit more accountable, and that’s what we all want, is that if someone is buying something, putting that kind of money out, you want them to be sitting in a healthy environment, right?

Michael:               I enjoy putting that kind of pressure on companies. I’ll be a happy mouth piece for that. I don’t think I mentioned this on the last one but, I’m a fellow adrenaline junkie. I spent three summers sky diving in the early 2000’s. [crosstalk]

Michael:               Well, skiing and snowboarding. Snowboarding has been horrific for me. I’m 0 for 3 with 2 concussions, so I’ve retired from snow sports, but I definitely was right there with you as far as the needs for speed and excitement.

Randy Gomm:   It never seems to go away though Michael, you think it would, but..

Michael:               I still see a lot of my friends who are in that sport post things, and I get a little, you know, you get the itch. But that one too, the smell on the plain all the time is that jet fuel, I wonder. I could have used this then, I’m sure I was exposed to tons of stuff every day. The big running joke is I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning. They steal the line from Apocalypse Now, the movie, and there’s t-shirts that say that, and it’s true, the [inaudible] always smells like jet fuel, so for my skydiver friends out there, check for a sauna.

Randy Gomm:   The other thing that I was going to mention is the wood. I experimented with the wood. Pewter is a great wood, antifungal, antibacterial. Sometimes people react to the turbines in the cedar. Twice I had to actually pull it out of someones home, even though they didn’t react to the cedar initially, but they did after time.

Randy Gomm:   Then I experimented with Basswood and spruce, and poplar. All good wood as far as people not reacting to, but they didn’t seem to handle the heat that well over time, and sometimes crack and check. What we did is we were using Canadian Hemlock, but we do something a little different is we kiln dried it to 68% moisture content, so they call it furniture grade, so because of that it doesn’t off gas and I’ve never had anybody react to it, and it stands up really well. We sold it to over a thousand practitioners, commercial places and they get a lot of use. If they can handle that then you won’t have any problem for your home.

Randy Gomm:   One thing I wanted to mention, even just generally talking about general sauna use and benefits. I was very pleased, this has nothing to do with infrared saunas, but just sauna use, I was very pleased to have read a few of the research papers on the Finish Study, have they mentioned to that to you before Michael? They took 23,000 middle aged men and over a 20 year period, so that’s a good data base. Then they looked at the ones that used the sauna two or three times a week, versus once a week, and four times and more versus once. What they discovered is, the longevity, it reduced mortality by 24% if the use is somewhere between two or three times a week and 40% if you used a sauna four times a week or more. To me, that was just like, “Wow. That should be in the news.” It wasn’t, it barely hit the news.

Randy Gomm:   If someone had either a drug or a herb and you say, “Wow, you do that four times a week and increase your longevity.” And they were talking cancer, heart disease.

Michael:               There would be a lot of people in line for that pill.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. Exactly. So, it’s nice. Now, to be fair, this is done with a conventional sauna but the principal is still the same. You’re heating up the core temperature. You’re sweating profusely. They also took the same data, the same group and they looked at Dementia and Alzheimer and one it reduced by 65% and the other was by I think 64%.

Michael:               Wow.

Randy Gomm:   I don’t know if that’s because of heat shock proteins or because of lowering the heavy metals but, it’s fascinating.

Michael:               It could be also potentially increased circulation and movement of things in the body, because warmer, that’s what a fever is, warmer temperature speeds up biological processes too.

Randy Gomm:   Exactly.

Michael:               Now this is all just theory. I’m not a doctor, this is all just popping into my head, but biological processes include cleaning out the brain. What happens with Alzheimer and dementia a lot of time is they’re finding the toxins aren’t cleared out of the brain. By toxins I mean cellular waste as much as anything else.

Randy Gomm:   And high fat content in the brain, and the toxic load can be high.

Michael:               Okay. That makes sense then. So, four days a week is what you said, and that was around a 40% increase?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. The interesting thing is they compared to doing it once a week, and I thought… as a control, I was a [inaudible] before and you always had a control. Why did the control be used once a week? Why didn’t they use it zero times a week? Right? The reason was, because of the 23,000 middle aged men in Finland, they could only find eight people that didn’t use the sauna at all, and I cracked up. That’s why they use it as one.

Michael:               That’s funny. As someone from Chicago, I can understand why people in Finland would be glued to their saunas. You’re Canadian but the BC is not the frigid wasteland that the Great Lakes area and Finland can be, so I would have done just about anything to have this thing when I lived in the Midwest winters. I probably would have overdosed on it. I probably would have just gotten a giant one and made a bed in there.

Randy Gomm:   One thing I wanted to point out, we talked about electrolytes, as you increase your sauna you definitely want to increase your electrolyte use, whether you drink coconut water or get some sort of electrolyte mix, most of them aren’t high enough in magnesium, so you can take oral magnesium or transdermal magnesium. The other thing to keep in mind, if someone is quite toxic. Let’s say someone has Lyme disease or heavy metals or fibromyalgia, or any of the labels, go slow. They may start off doing the sauna every three days. They may do that for three or four weeks and after they can handle that, every other day for three or four weeks, and then daily. If not, what was happening is sometimes people would feel really good and then at about day four they have a major reaction, they had flu like symptoms.

Randy Gomm:   My theory with this is you’re mobilizing 90% of your toxins and heavy metals to your skin, but to be fair if you have to compromise phase two detox pathways, it’s going to make it worse. It’s just a figure I’ve made up, but let’s say a certain small percentage of [inaudible] deal with and you have these compromised phase two detox pathways, it’s going to make it worse. So, you go a little bit slower, we’ve had way better success.

Michael:               Oops. Sorry, I was on mute there. I said that’s interesting. I did get three emails after the webinar asking me about any specific electrolytes that I use or recommend and Mira and I both use one from Seeking Health, which is Dr. Ben Lynch’s company. It’s just a powdered electrolyte and then we both use topical magnesium, and take a supplemental magnesium threonate, which is more for brain function. So, that’s kind of our approach for that. I put a pinch of sea salt in, we mix the electrolytes with a pinch of sea salt and we top it with a little coconut water if we have it around, but we make one of those drinks about once a day, and I haven’t noticed much dehydration on our end.

Randy Gomm:   I sometimes will chew on Dulse, it’s a sea vegetable. It’s an acquired taste.

Michael:               That’s a brave chew.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. In transdermal magnesium, occasionally people get a rash from it, so you might want to put on a small patch on your skin to make sure you don’t get a rash. I don’t want to suggest and someone lathers themselves..

Michael:               It can. It can be itchy, turn a little red. The oils or the sprays and the oils, I’ve noticed are a little bit more… we have a lotion that Mira likes a lot better that’s by Ancient Minerals which I think is owned by Redmonds Salt Company. That’s a look into our cabinet, but that’s what we do for the electrolytes.

Michael:               You covered the heating units, the wood. You talked about the testing and how companies were only testing the heating elements outside of the machine, not inside of the sauna and that’s definitely something to look for, as how is that tested?

Randy Gomm:   I think the reason for that is because if you test it outside, you’re not including electrical connection and wiring. Electrical connections is often at the high HTMF, so you want to have it tested in the environment that you’re going to be sitting in.

Michael:               Yeah. When I looked into that one, that was one that I saw a lot of companies that would ship their heating unit out to a lab and say, “This makes zero EMF,” or, “This has zero off gassing,” and it’s like how about all the wood, how about all the… I mean, I know about particle board and that type of stuff and if you… we had a couch that had some particle board, some of that and Mira got headaches when we first got it, and that wasn’t being heated to 140 degrees, which would exponentially increase the amount of stuff coming off of it. When you see the $500.00 Sauna at Costco or Sams Club or something, there’s probably a reason for that, and real wood costs a lot more than fiber. I don’t know what that’s called? What is it called? You had an abbreviation for it.

Randy Gomm:   Multiple Density Fiber Board. MDF board.

Michael:               Yeah. So that’s like particle board or some sort of plywood that has that heat in it, you mentioned formaldehyde and it off gases something fierce, so I definitely would not sit in a box made of that and then turn up the heat. People end up getting more sick than they were to begin with to use the sauna.

Randy Gomm:   Exactly.

Michael:               I think that covers most of the questions that I had. You are extending a generous offer to our Rebel Health Tribe audience, if you want to share that with them.

Randy Gomm:   I would be happy to. Anybody that mentions Rebel Health Tribe, we’d be happy to give them $500.00 dollars off of the retail price. If you call in just mention that and we usually try to subsidize a lot of shipping as well. Just mention that and we’d be happy to give you that discount. The saunas are very easy to put together. It would usually take two people, an hour, an hour and a half. It’s not like an Ikea piece of furniture where you’re going to be muttering my name under your breath, okay? They’re pretty easy to put together.

Michael:               I’m terrible at building things and putting things together and Mira and I were able to do it in a very small apartment that we were living in, and then we moved when she got sick last year, we moved from there to here and I was really nervous about taking it apart and putting it back together, and I reached out to you to get the instructions again, because in the move I couldn’t find the instructions. I actually barely ended up even using the instructions. It was very easy to take it apart, and then I had a friend help me and we put it back together in like ten minutes. It’s really just the big front side, side, back, bottom and then there’s the bench. It’s really only about eight, nine pieces and then you’ve even color coated the wiring so people like me can put it together.

Randy Gomm:   It draws about a two person unit, I guess depending on where you are in the country, it would probably cost you 13, 14 cents an hour to run, so you’re not going to notice a difference on your hydro bill.

Michael:               Yeah. I think we noticed about five bucks. It was about a five dollar increase, and we use it all the time. The one person and the two person use a regular standard plug, and then there’s a small corner model that also..

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. It just plugs into a normal 15 amp circuit. As soon as you go to the larger units, you need a 20 amp circuit which involves 12 gauge wiring, so you’d have to find out how far you are away from the power box.

Michael:               And that’s with the three prongs, right? Well they all have three prongs.

Randy Gomm:   One prong vertical and the other horizontal.

Michael:               Oh, it’s like the one that washing machines plug into, right?

Randy Gomm:   Yeah.

Michael:               Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, this one is a two person, you can kind of see it there. It’s definitely big enough for us. We can both sit in there, or it’s big enough to sit across with your back up against one of the heating units. I’ve been in saunas where the wood on the back gets too hot for my skin. Again, my skin is pretty sensitive to heat, so is my mouth, like hot tea, hot coffee I can’t do. I was concerned about that and I’ve been in saunas where I have to wear a towel on my back to be able to touch the wood and your wood doesn’t get very hot. It’s warm, you can feel it but it’s not hot. You can sit across it, you can sit facing forward. We were concerned with that, because the ones at the spa where they’re a little bigger and we would always lay down and I was like, “Should we get the bigger one so we can lay down?” But now that I don’t have that, it doesn’t matter.

Randy Gomm:   That’s good. You’ll find that having the heat right against the back, it really heats up the core temperature fast.

Michael:               Yeah. I love it. I sit right up against it. Thank you for the generous discount for our audience. Right below the video, you will find the phone number to call. I would highly recommend just calling. We’ll have a link to the website too, but I would recommend check out their website, if you want to talk saunas, call them. Randy and his team can answer all your questions, give you whatever information you need. They’re all just as friendly as he is, and very generous with their time and information. They’re happy to answer any questions that way. It’s much faster and more efficient than email back and forth and things like that. So, you can call them, go to their website, check that out. $500.00 discount, all you have to do is mention Rebel Health Tribe. There’s no coupon codes, there’s no special gimmick of any kind. Just mention us, mention the webinar, mention me, anything like that and you’ll get the discount there.

Michael:               Also, right below the phone number and the link to the website, we have the two PDF’s, the Randy’s recommended sauna usage protocol and then also the questions to ask when looking at other saunas. Like you said, as long as people follow those recommendations and ask those questions, whether they get one of your saunas or another sauna, they’re going to wind up with a better product than they would if they weren’t educated.

Randy Gomm:   Yeah. That’d be great. I sure appreciate you having me on Michael. It’s been a pleasure.

Michael:               Yeah. It’s always fun. Thank you so much Randy.

Randy Gomm:   Thanks again.