The Natural Evolution Podcast

Season 1

Episode 17

S1E17 – Hoping It’ll Work with Amy Stein

At first, Amy Stein thought the aches and pains gripping her body were psychosomatic. Working as a medical researcher studying chronic pain management, it seemed plausible that the symptoms her patients were experiencing made her hypervigilant of her own body.

But then the muscles in her back started to fuse, her weight dropped to a dangerous 85 pounds, and her body — screaming in pain — began to shut down.

Western Medicine — including 30 different specialists, from Neurologists to Hematologists, and Rheumatologists plus $320,000 in out-of-pocket medical expenses — offered no solutions.

Sick of being a medical guinea pig, and with a growing cocktail of prescription medications, Amy — who has a Bachelor of Psychology, and an MBA — put her research skills to personal use.

More than 8000 hours of investigation later, Amy discovered the link between trauma and autoimmune disease, the power of plant medicine, addressing imbalances within the body, toxicity, and parasites.


A note from Amy:

“Dr. Kim D’Eramo and other Energy Medicine teachers have been a big influence on my journey. It wasn’t until I understood the relationship of mind-body-spirit healing that I began to recover. I am still constantly learning as I love researching and reading. I am working on starting to reach out and helping others to rebalance and thrive with the “power of the plants”. I created my own original herbal products that I use in my daily healing and look forward to sharing with others in the future. I want to share my story with others to let them know there is a way back from the HELL of trauma and AI diseases. I decided to start writing a book about my experience. I am also planning on creating a series on different topics that I feel are relevant to know about in order to maneuver the minefields of our toxic world. I have used the plants in many different forms and I am always excited when I discover a new use for a plant-I owe a lot of my healing to Mother Nature and establishing trust in the innate intelligence of my body.”

Connect with Amy on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/381761643253110

Dynamic Neural Retraining System (DNRS): https://retrainingthebrain.com/

Dr. Kim D’Eramo: drkimderamo.com

Head over to https://rebelhealthtribe.com/kit to get a free download of our loaded quick start guide to help you along your healing journey.  If you like us, subscribe, review, and share us with your friends, and come join our Rebel Health Tribe group on Facebook.

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Listen to Episode #17

Amy Stein

Amy Stein

About our Guest

Dr. Kim D’Eramo and other Energy Medicine teachers have been a big influence on my journey. It wasn’t until I understood the relationship of mind-body-spirit healing that I began to recover.

I am still constantly learning as I love researching and reading. I am working on starting to reach out and helping others to rebalance and thrive with the “power of the plants”. I created my own original herbal products that I use in my daily healing and look forward to sharing with others in the future. I want to share my story with others to let them know there is a way back from the HELL of trauma and AI diseases. I decided to start writing a book about my experience. I am also planning on creating a series on different topics that I feel are relevant to know about in order to maneuver the minefields of our toxic world. I have used the plants in many different forms and I am always excited when I discover a new use for a plant-I owe a lot of my healing to Mother Nature and establishing trust in the innate intelligence of my body.

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Amy Stein

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Podcast Transcript

Michael: Hello, and welcome to The Natural Evolution, produced by Rebel Health Tribe. A radio show focused on providing you with inspiration, education and tools for true healing and transformation. I’m Michael and I’ll be your guide on this adventure, as, together, we explore the very nature of the healing journey. I’m here with Amy Stein. Amy, thank you.

Amy Stein:

Thank you. I’m happy to be here. Very excited.

Michael:

Yeah, it’s going to be fun. We had a great chat before we came on, and it’s a lot of fun. And, she’s now watched a bunch of our stuff and she’s on the other end of the camera now, so let’s all try to make her really nervous.

Amy Stein:

Yeah, right.

Michael:

What we did is, we wanted to do something unique with this podcast. I don’t know unique. I don’t honestly listen to tons of podcasts so I don’t know if somebody has done it before. But, when we were looking at who we wanted to have on for this first season, to talk about healing journeys and the healing process and going through that, we came up with the idea, we have some pretty amazing stories in our community, why don’t we reach out to our people and see what comes up.

And so, we chose four of them. And, we’re going to get to know some of our HT community members. And, I think it’ll be a lot of fun. I think it’s a fun way for you guys to be involved. And then, for our audience to see that all the other guests so far have been doctors and practitioners of some kind and now they can see like people like them. People who aren’t a doctor, aren’t a practitioner, aren’t a nutritionist and to see yourself more in the journey and to see that there are those who are among us in the community here who have been through quite a bit and who have come out the other side of it. So I guess my first question would be, were you healthy as a kid?

Amy Stein:

Yeah, so that’s the thing. I don’t ever remember being healthy. I had bad acne in third grade. I had a dermatologist. What third grader has a dermatologist?

Michael:

You had acne in third grade?

Amy Stein:

Yes, I had bad cystic acne. So I was seeing a dermatologist from third grade on. The treatment was then he gave me antibiotics.

Michael:

Yeah, like of them.

Amy Stein:

So I was chronically on antibiotics as a kid. Had no idea that was destroying my gut. Then they put me on Accutane in high school, which has all these other crazy side effects. Now, they don’t even use that.

Michael:

Did you have issues in your mouth?

Amy Stein:

No, luckily, the only thing I have is GI because of it. And, my-

Michael:

Accutane has a nasty list of side effects.

Amy Stein:

Yes. You have to get bloodwork every month to make sure it didn’t effect your liver, but it affects your liver anyway. As we all know, everything goes through your liver. So, I always had migraines and stomach aches as a kid. But nobody knew what celiac was then, right? And so, I grew up in a tiny household. My mom made chicken cutlets and pasta 8=three times a week. We always had salad, we always had vegetables, but we always had some sort of pasta or breading or something and I always had stomach aches. And, I felt very unseen because my parents just thought I’d wanted to get out of things, right? So I didn’t want to go to someone’s house or I didn’t want to do something because I had these stomach aches and I wasn’t comfortable going to somebody else’s house.

And, it followed me through high school, the migraines progressively got worse. I would blackout after lunch in high school. And, I would go down to the nurse’s office and they would say you just don’t want to sit in math class because you don’t like math. I said, no, I’m blacking out, everything goes fuzzy. I’m seeing these things that aren’t there. Something’s going on. So I would go to my doctor, I would tell her the things, they would run the routine bloodwork, nothing would come up, nothing would come up, nothing would come up. I was just always told you’re really sensitive. Just stop being so sensitive. Take the medications we give you. Here’s medications for migraines, take it. I then got crazy nightmares. I had nosebleeds, I had all this stuff. I was depressed they put me on all these antidepressants. I had all these crazy symptoms from it.

Michael:

You had acne the whole time, to Junior High, High School?

Amy Stein:

Yeah. It got better, I guess, after the Accutane, the acne did get better but the GI symptoms got worse and the migraines got worse. So, before I just had headaches as a kid, but now I was in full blown migraine. And then, in college, I was that person that I would have to take a two-hour nap before I went out drinking with my friends because I just didn’t have the energy to get through it. I was always tired. I wanted to go to bed at 8:30. I still go to bed at nine o’clock now for different reasons. But, I couldn’t function. I was falling asleep. I had fatigue. I had all this stuff.

I went to my doctor in college, I said, “Do you think I have Hashimoto’s, this thyroid thing? There’s a lot of women in my family who have it. No, no, no, no, no, you don’t have it.” As we know, it takes, 10 to 15 years, 20 years to get an accurate diagnosis. It’s basically how long it took me to get my diagnosis. I’ve since it reversed it with what I was doing, but it was a long string of events. I had childhood trauma. As we know, there’s a correlation with trauma and autoimmune. I didn’t know any of that. I went to school for psychology, I did all this research at the university. None of that was ever mentioned. I wasn’t really doing that field, but I was on PubMed all the time, I loved it. I was a big book nerd, I always read a lot. I liked the excitement of learning new things.

And then, I started to work with chronic pain patients a few years after college after I got my masters. And, we were teaching them alternative modality. So guided meditation, coping skills training.

Michael:

For pain?

Amy Stein:

Yes. Which was revolutionary.

Michael:

Are you familiar with Joe Tatta?

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

Okay.

Amy Stein:

But, not back then. I wasn’t familiar with any of the people that I know now back then, because I was very in the mindset of, if you had an issue, you went to the doctor, they gave you a pill to fix it. And, if you didn’t get better, it was because you weren’t compliant. So even with my chronic pain patients, I kind of had this chip on my shoulder, well, you must not be compliant. Because, we’re offering you these alternative options, you’re taking the medications, you’re taking a lot of medications, but you’re still telling me all these things. I was with the geriatric population, which I enjoyed a lot, but I was clueless. And, I didn’t realize it until I got sick, how clueless that I was.

So I started to resemble my patients. I guess, I noticed a strong correlation, probably about two years in. And, I remember telling my mom, “I think there’s something wrong. A lot of these things are getting worse.” So my doctor referred me to an endocrinologist, and he was really cold and was like, “There’s nothing wrong with you, you just have stress, you just bought a house, you’re getting married. These are good stressor, you should just deal.” I was really upset. And, I thought, no, I think there’s something wrong. I think you’re missing something. He told me I was pre-diabetic, “your thyroid was fine, just change the way you’re eating and you won’t,” because I was blacking out again.

So the migraines came back really, really bad. I was blacking out. I was throwing up. I was miserable. I had no energy. And, everyone kept telling me, it’s just stress, it’s just stress. Go back, see a therapist, you’ll be fine. And I knew, no, no, no, there’s something going on. But again, in that system, I was indoctrinated as a child. Like, the doctor knows best. You do what the doctor tells you. If you’re not doing it right, it’s your fault, because they know what they’re talking about, they went to medical school. And so, even though this little voice was like, no, this isn’t right, I still went along with it.

It got to the point after I got married, I got really sick. It was January, I was coming back from the clinic to my office and I rolled my ankle outside. I had flats on. I wasn’t wearing high heels. I wound up breaking my whole foot. The whole metatarsal shattered. Had no idea. I just thought, oh, it’s really painful. But, my doctor was away and I couldn’t get an x ray. I was like, this whole thing. So I pushed it off for a few days. And they’re like, oh, your metatarsal is completely broken. I was like, “Oh, how does that happen?” They asked me what I did. I said, “I was just walking on the sidewalk, I rolled my ankle and it broke.”

So that was the beginning of the downhill slide. The wheels just fell off. So, all this stuff started happening. I was working with rheumatologists at that time. That’s how I was getting my patients. One of the head rheumatologist was a PI on our study. And, he was referring patients, the other doctors in the facility were referring patients. So, I thought I’ll just go see them. I work with them every day. I respect them, I’ll go see them. So, they did my bloodwork. At first, a little bit of things came up like I had a little bit of a positive AMA, I had some positive C reactive protein. But, other than that, they really couldn’t find anything.

And then, I kept telling them, all this is happening. So, they thought, “Well, we’ll put you on some drugs to balance things out. Come back when it’s worse, right?” They always tell you come back when it’s worse. I said, “Can I make any changes? Can I change my diet?” I read this thing about deodorant. You’re putting it on your lymph nodes. There’s aluminum. Do you think I should change that? No, no, no, you don’t need to do any of that. No, just take the medication, come back when it’s worse.”

And, it really upset me and I remember telling my mom and my husband, “I respect these doctors, I work with them all the time. And, I felt like they didn’t listen to me. And, I’m just not a regular patient, like they’ve known me for years. I’ve worked with them on a daily basis, you know, they know who I am. And they’re like, oh, it’s fine. Just take the medication, it’ll be fine.” It didn’t get fine. It progressively got worse. My AMA was 3000. All of my stuff was off the charts. But, they couldn’t find a name for it, right? So, it was just like, “Oh, well, you don’t fully fit into this box of RA. You don’t fully fit into the lupus box. You don’t fully fit into this box so we’re just going to give you more medication. And, then we’ll see how that goes.” I was, “No, this doesn’t sit well with me.” But, I didn’t know what else to do. I felt really helpless. I felt disempowered. I didn’t know what to do.

So I live in New York. We end up going to Manhattan, right, because everyone’s like, oh, the better doctors are in Manhattan. That was not the case, I did not have that experience. So, I went to other rheumatologists, other specialists throughout the whole area. Everyone called me something different. No one could agree on what I had, no one could agree on a course of treatment. No one could offer me any sort of guidance as to what to do. They just felt like I was a difficult patient because even though I claimed I was doing what they told me to do, I was getting worse. And, they didn’t know what to do with me so they just didn’t want to deal with me.

So then, either I would quit, or they would fire me, because they didn’t know how to handle me. And, it was a really, really awful feeling. And, I know I’m not alone in that. I know there’s a lot of people in our community who have gone through this. And it’s a really bone crushing, sucky feeling. So I remember I was like, okay, maybe I’ll go back to therapy, right, and that will help. Even though I knew that it was just going to re-traumatize me, and it wasn’t going to do anything, I didn’t know what else to do. And, the therapist I saw, didn’t know what to do with me.

At that point, I was trying to fight to get onto disability and I was totally defeated. I couldn’t get out of bed. I had ridiculous pain. I lost massive amounts of weight. I kept breaking my feet. So, I would be like in double casts. The doctors didn’t know what to do with me. I changed my diet. I went to the celiac center. I did everything as a type A person would do, to get better. It was this manic healing. Manic trying to figure out what was wrong with me.

Michael:

Have you figured out what was causing your feet to break?

Amy Stein:

Yeah, was the celiac.

Michael:

Okay, so like malnutrition, basically.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

[crosstalk 00:12:37] was so damaged that you weren’t absorbing nutrients and minerals.

Amy Stein:

And, I developed osteopenia because of it.

Michael:

Okay. Can I slow you down for a second?

Amy Stein:

Yeah, I’m talking fast, right?

Michael:

No, no, it’s totally fine. I just want to kind of lean into… and it’s okay, if this is not where you want to go, but just let me know, as long as-

Amy Stein:

Are you going to talk about the childhood trauma?

Michael:

Well, I’m going to talk about the correlation between being negated by your parents.

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

And, that you’re fine. You just don’t want to go do the thing or that you’re fine, and this or that. You were invalidated in your experience. And then, you were invalidated in your experience by the doctors that you were going and scrambling.

Amy Stein:

And, by my husband, my husband didn’t believe me, either.

Michael:

Oh, that’s three. So, there’s three, that all different layers. And so, I’ve been doing a lot of trauma work the last few years and Dr. Gabor Mate who I’m studying under that’s an international trauma expert. Now, his definition of trauma is not the thing that happens to us, it’s what happens inside the body or what happens [crosstalk 00:13:54]. Yeah

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

It’s more about what support and validation and care and compassion and protection and all of that, that we’re able to receive. So, the same thing can happen to two kids?

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

And, there’s tons of examples of this. But, the same thing can happen to a busload of kids and if some of them get care and compassion and validation, and support and protection, and attunement, and all of these things that are for a healthy nervous system response to something, that incident will not really affect them long-term very much. And then, the ones who don’t receive that, have a completely different experience where it’s, my experience is invalid, meaning I am invalid. Like, I am-

Amy Stein:

Unworthy.

Michael:

It’s stories. Kids make up stories. You’ve used the phrase what’s wrong with me a whole bunch of times when you were trying to figure out your health situation, and we make up stories to make sense of the experience that we’re having and the experience that the story that might get create if you’re a kid, and you always don’t feel good and somebody is telling you, you’re fine, you just don’t want to go to the thing, let’s go to the thing, then you probably start to not even tell them half the time when you didn’t feel good because you feel like it’s a burden. And, I’m a burden. I’m this, I’m that.

Amy Stein:

I’m just complaining.

Michael:

Something’s wrong with me, I’m a complainer, I’m going to get… Yeah. And so, you learn to eat your… I don’t mean physically eat, but absorb and suppress your own experience. Like, your feelings, yes, but the thing that you’re actually experiencing is suppressed then because you can’t share it, you can’t express it. And then, to have that from doctors, from partners, from things like that, that’s a lot of time of being really isolated with this, because then that feels really alone.

When Mary has gone through her really bad flares, people in her life who don’t know how to be there in that, will just be like, oh, yeah, one time I had a really bad cold, too. And it’s like, no, you don’t get it-

Amy Stein:

You don’t get it.

Michael:

Or, oh, you can’t even have pizza this one time, or all these little things, they just don’t get or understand. And then, there’s a boiling rage that comes. But, that can’t be expressed either because they don’t understand. And then, they’ll get defensive if you lash out.

Amy Stein:

You don’t want to lose any more friends because you already lost some of your friends.

Michael:

So, you have to be something which isn’t a bummer to them in order to be around.

Amy Stein:

Exactly. You have to fake it. Yep.

Michael:

I think there was probably a lot of that going on.

Amy Stein:

Oh, yeah.

Michael:

And so, I just wanted to point that out, because that’s something I’ve learned about and witnessed being the caretaker for someone who’s been really sick. And then, studying a lot of trauma and psychology stuff, that is just as painful or scary as the fear, as the symptoms, as the breaking of the foot, as the stomach upsets and all these other things. And, it’s like the silent part of chronic disease that-

Amy Stein:

And, nobody talks about it.

Michael:

Yeah.

Amy Stein:

Nobody talks about it. So even, when I got to a place with a doctor who believes me, right, which took over 10 years… the doctor I have now is great because she actually lets me do my own research, right? So, she respects that I know what’s best for me and that I am competent enough to do the research, to look at the data, and to figure out what’s going to work best for me. That was incredibly hard to find prior. I went to other functional practitioners, other integrative practitioners, when for treatments in Florida to see practitioners down there, because New York is so strict with what you can and cannot do, you basically can’t do anything here. So we went to Florida to get treatment.

And even then, it was like an uphill battle, right? You’re pushing the rock, the boulder up the hill, and no one listens to you and no one sees you. No one believes you of what you’re saying, right? It can’t be that bad, you can’t be that alone, you can’t be in that much pain. You couldn’t have tried everything. There’s something you’re doing wrong. It’s never the doctor, it’s never the protocol. So they would have me do these protocols that other patients had done, and I would just get sicker. I’d become septic, I’d become bedridden, I would not be able to eat anything, I’d have to go on a liquid diet. And, it was my fault, right? I wasn’t doing it right. And so, it was crazy that I finally got to the point where I realized, this is insanity, this is the definition of insanity and that I now see how frustrated my patients were.

I would listen to them and I would advocate for them but I never really understood where they were at until I got sick myself. Then, to try to explain it to people that I’d been friends with for years. Like you said, they would try to compare. It was a comparison. Or, even people in my family. Oh, well, I have this. Okay, but you don’t get it. It’s different. It’s completely different. And so, it’s another layer of being unseen.

Michael:

Hey, if you’re enjoying the show, make sure you head over to rebelhealthtribe.com/kit. That’s K-I-T. And, grab the RHT starter kit, which includes a sampler of four free videos from our professional master classes and webinars. The RHD healthy sleep guide, the wellness vault coupon book, which will save you money on all of our favorite health-related tools and resources, a professional product guide and a coupon for 15% off your first order in our shop. That’s rebelhealthtribe.com/kit, K-I-T, and you’ll get all that delivered right away. Also, if you’re on Facebook, we’ve got a fun, engaging and supportive group over there as well with 1000s of health seekers just like yourself. Just search for rebel health tribe and you’ll find us. Thanks for listening and now back to the show.

Amy Stein:

So, what happened was, it got really dark. It got really dark. I didn’t want to live. I didn’t have a plan. I wound up calling a friend of mine a few years ago, I guess it was like three years ago on New Year’s Eve. And, we had worked in college at a crisis hotline. We used to work together on it. And, I said to her, “I’m calling you, I don’t have a plan, but I don’t want to do this anymore.” I can’t do it anymore. I can’t live like this. I don’t know what to do. I’ve tried all these things. It’s just not working. It’s not working.” And, she listened to me, and she got me down to a part where I was like, Okay, I’m gonna look into this other protocol, because I feel like this is going to help me and something’s telling me to do it. So I did the DNRs training with Annie Hopper.

Michael:

Did you do the in-person thing or did you do-

Amy Stein:

I did not do the in-person because it was so bad, I couldn’t travel, I couldn’t be in a car longer than a half hour. I couldn’t fly. I couldn’t be-

Michael:

So many other people that utilize that training are in that same boat, too, I’m sure. There’s a lot of people who can’t go to a 3-day, 4-day, 5-day workshop in some other city.

Amy Stein:

No. I couldn’t even leave my house to go to the doctor. There was points were my mom would have to take me or my husband had to take me. But, I knew I could get the DVDs right. And, I had read her book. I had read so many books by this point, I would bring the books and say, “Fo you think we should try this, Dr. Shoemaker’s Mold protocol, because I live on an island and it’s moldy all of the time.” And, our house had mold. And, I knew we had molds. And, we tried to remediate and it was still in my body. And, I went through the gamut of all this stuff. I made all my food from scratch, I cut out all the chemicals. I was still getting triggered by going outside if somebody’s doing laundry. Or if someone sprayed Windex or someone was smoking a cigarette five cars ahead of me on the highway. And, it was debilitating. I couldn’t leave, I couldn’t do anything.

So I thought, okay, I’m going to have to do this, to get my brain to a place where I can think rationally because at that point, I couldn’t even think rationally anymore. And I was like, I don’t know what to do. And, at that same point, I’d already been listening to all these webinars and all these podcasts, reading all these books for years, right? I had all these notes and all what I should do, and I tried all these things that didn’t work. And, I wasn’t really spiritual at that point and I didn’t really understand the connection with emotions and spirit. And, you have to feel the heel. I didn’t understand any of that. I heard it but it wasn’t resonating with me. I wasn’t at that point that I could absorb it.

And, it got to the point where one day I was listening to Stephen Bonnier. So he’s an herbalist who wrote a bunch of books about, you make your own tinctures with plant medicine. So, utilize the power of the plants to make plant medicines. So plant medicine has been used for 15,000 years. And, Dr. [inaudible 00:23:05] talks about this all the time. And, all these different plants have all of these different properties. And, I thought this is fascinating. I’ve always gardened, I’ve always loved growing things, we grow our own vegetables. And, I realized, all these plants I already had growing, I could harvest for medicine. I was like, this is crazy.

And, it reminded me a book my gran had been reading before she passed about plant medicine and using it as a form of alternative medicine. And, he had written in the book an inscription and I was like, you know what, I think this is the route I need to go. And, once I started doing that, I guess it was like three or four years ago, everything changed. Everything shifted. When I turned to the power of plant medicine, when I started to study homeopathy. I had already been dabbling in essential oils, for 10 years before that, but I didn’t really understand how it worked. I just knew, okay, I did this and it did this, right? It was like a pill for ill type thing. But, I didn’t understand the energetics of it. It was all energy medicine.

Then, I found all these energy medicine practitioners. So Dr. Kim D’Eramo, she was huge. So, a lot of her ideas and her techniques have worked well for me. Donna Eden, I do her energetic routine every day. I had done Tai Chi. When I was working, and I would refer my clients to it. They thought I was crazy because I was in my 20s and I was the youngest person in the Tai Chi class.

Michael:

I’ve been to Tai Chi classes, and I’ve been the youngest person in every one I’ve ever been to.

Amy Stein:

Yes. So they thought it was hysterical that I was there. And, I’m like, “No, I think there’s something to it. You should do it with me.” And then, the teacher, I had known 10 years ago, she started doing it online. So I started doing that with her again. And, once I understood that everything was energy, right? Because 10 years ago, if you would have told me to use an oil, to use this liquid homeopathic remedy, I would have thought you were talking about craziness. It wasn’t science to me, I needed the science.

And then, when I realized there was science to it, there was a lot of science for 1000s of years in science on it, I thought, this is where I need to go. This is where I need to go. And once, I did that, I also did the micro formulas protocol. That was huge, too, because it addresses healing at the foundational level. So I will definitely give a big shout out to them.

Michael:

They are CellCore now.

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

I think.

Amy Stein:

Yeah. Well, CellCore’s a practitioner line, Microbe is the regular people line. Yeah, I have CellCore, too. I’m on CellCore, too. CellCore has more products in the line than Microbe.

Michael:

Gotcha. So, [crosstalk 00:26:00] is direct to consumer and CellCore’s-

Amy Stein:

Yes, it’s a practitioner line. So, I introduced my doctor to that. And, I was like, this is a game-changer. This is actually working. I felt like I was dying, and had no other options. And, I started doing this along with the energy medicine and I feel like there could be hope now. So I started studying more about the plant medicine, I started taking herbalism classes. Online, I started reading a lot of herbalism books. I started making my own medicine, which was very empowering. It’s a lot cheaper, too, which is why I did it. And, it was incredible. The differences were night and day.

And so, I fully got behind it. I started studying more about homeopathy. I started making my own bombs, because a lot of things on the market weren’t addressing my issues. So, I was able to make my own formulations that were specific for my issues, and it was working. And, I thought this was great. So then, I would give them out to people for Christmas. Like, yeah, I think you should use this, it’ll be good for you. And, people liked it.

Michael:

That sounds like a business idea.

Amy Stein:

Yeah, in the future. It’s on the backburner right now.

Michael:

So, what was it like when things started to kind of turn the corner a little bit? How did you know you were feeling better, that something was working?

Amy Stein:

I just felt it on a spiritual level. Once I started actually tapping into that, which was huge, because I didn’t know how to do it before, I really made no wrong decisions. Whereas before everything was made a decision out of fear, right? Okay, I’m just going to do this, because I don’t know what else to do. And, this is what everyone’s telling me to do. And, this is what the research says, and this is what this person said on this podcast so I’m just going to do that. And maybe it’ll work, right? I’m going to hope it’ll work, I’m going to hope it’ll work. And, it was that desperation, that manic energy, that manic healing, rather than just going relaxing, listening to my body, trusting innate talents of my body, that it can heal, it can rebound, you just have to give it what it needs. And, we get in the way, because we think we know better. And, we try to treat the body like a car that breaks down and it didn’t work.

When I was going at that, when I was fighting it, right, I thought, oh, but I have to fight this. Because if I don’t fight it, that means I’m giving up and I failed. And, I couldn’t fail. It was my life, I couldn’t fail. So I just kept fighting and fighting and fighting. I have to fight to read this book, I have to fight to listen to all these podcasts. I have to fight to do this protocol and to beat the conditions into submission.

At one point, I had 10 different diagnoses that we were working on. So then, it always felt like you’re chasing the dragon, right? So you get one to kind of calm down, and then another dragon pops up. And then, that one kind of calms down and then the first dragon resurfaces. And, it was a shitty way to live because you never knew when the other shoe was going to drop. You never knew what you were going to be dealing with. I’m still in it. I’m definitely not out of it completely. I’m in a lot better place than I ever was, but I still don’t know what I’ll feel like tomorrow.

I still can sometimes push myself too much and I pay for it. I still contend with the migraines, I still have fatigue. But, now rather than pushing through it, I listen to my body when it first gives the message. I’m like, yeah, I need to stop. Yeah, I need to not do that. I need to reprioritize. You know what, if my husband doesn’t have dinner tonight, oh, well. It is what it is. If there’s something I can eat or if I’m not hungry, that’s what it is. Rather than feeling the guilt to please everybody, to be a certain person for everybody, to make everyone else happy, I was dying because of it. Because I had to be certain person to the world.

Michael:

People pleasing Type A’s are at much higher risk of chronic disease than-

Amy Stein:

Exactly. I’m probably speaking to everybody that’s listening to this. So it taught me a lot about myself. And initially, when I first got sick, I said, “I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy, right? This is awful thing. It’s horrible.” I probably said that for the first five years. And then, the more I started getting into the energy medicine, the plant medicine, it started to shift, the DNRs. I could think again, right, the brain fog wasn’t debilitating. And, I could kind of have rational thought process. And-

Michael:

Are you still doing that?

Amy Stein:

The DNRs, I do aspects of it. I do more of Dr. Kim’s techniques now because, to me, it’s more manageable. The DNRs is great, but I feel like if I were to refer it to people, the time commitment, especially if you don’t feel good, is a lot. And I know-

Michael:

Yeah, that’s the one catch for a lot of people I know. I have to do minimum 30 minutes a day, preferably 60, 90.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

Some people do it for 30 and still get results.

Amy Stein:

Yeah. So, I wasn’t that person, I had to do the hour. And, even the hour, I still had to sometimes do more. The way I treat myself now because essentially I treat myself… I work under my doctor, but I’ve been treating myself for the past few years… is what resonates with me. So I take aspects of DNRs that resonates with me, I take aspects of Ayurveda, I take aspects of traditional Chinese medicine, I take aspects of herbalism, homeopathy, whatever resonates with me. And, I check in with myself like, okay, what do you want me to do? What do you think is going to help, body? I still eat really clean, I still make my own food, I don’t eat out, I don’t have that luxury, there’s really nowhere to eat here. We have one restaurant, but it’s kind of pricey so we go out for special occasions.

I’m able to get some of my life back now. I am still really careful with what I do and I’m still really structured, compared to most people of how I live my life. We don’t use any chemicals in our house. We don’t do a lot of things that people do that are normal. I haven’t drank since I got married 10 years ago, because I just cannot metabolize alcohol. That’s a lot of our social experience is that, you go out, you drink with your friends, you go out to eat. So I don’t do that. So I’ve lost a lot of people that I thought were friends. That was a hard part of the journey as well, is you realize really what’s important, who’s actually there for you, and who you really are, right?

So, the person I am now I like a lot better than the person I was before I got sick. And, I would now say the last few years, I would do it over again, because the lessons I learned from it are huge. And now, I realize what I’m meant to do with my life, rather than what I thought I was supposed to do. So even though my life does not look like what I thought it would be, and I’m not doing what I thought I would be doing, I feel like the work and the knowledge I have now is so much more important for the world we live in and for all the people that are going through this, that it makes it worthwhile. So I feel like this whole journey was for a reason, as much as it was really shitty. And really-

Michael:

You don’t want to hear that when you’re in it. People would always say stuff to us when I was really sick or when I was really depressed or whenever somebody is really struggling like oh, you know, you’re going to come out of this in some sort of improved way, you’re going to learn something from this. I was always just like, shut up, I hate you.

Amy Stein:

Exactly.

Michael:

[crosstalk 00:34:03] just stop saying those things because I want this to stop. Because you always just want it to stop.

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

You just want it to stop. [crosstalk 00:34:11]. Yeah, and it’s not built that way unfortunately.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

Yeah, it’s been through our hardest times with all that stuff. And, the first flare up she had, we were able to get it under control pretty easily and just had to tighten up her diet and do a couple other things. And, the second one was more severe and longer and we had to go to deeper levels of stuff that she needed to do. And then, this last one was a year long and really terrifying and really horrible and then went into energetics and trauma things and stuff that we weren’t doing before. It’s always like another level. For me, when I got really depressed, I tried the diets. I was trained in functional medicine. I tried the supplements. I tried the things and it didn’t work.

So, I was forced to explore different levels of things, which is now where I’m moving my whole work and career and business and all of that is more in that scope. Because, you can get marginally better with switching a diet or reducing stress is huge. There’s a difference between reducing exposure to stress, and then improving your ability to handle and tolerate stress and manage stress. Two totally different things. Both need to be done. But then, there’s this other level that you touch on a little bit with your spirituality and your intuition and energetics. I’m somebody that, three years ago, if you said energy healing to me, I was out the door.

Amy Stein:

Exactly. Because it sounds like hooey.

Michael:

Hooey nonsense. Now, I’ve been in a really high level energy training for two years and so my perspective is a little different.

Amy Stein:

Right.

Michael:

It was witnessing it that got me on board, that got me to want to do the training. Now, I understand it a lot better, but it was witnessing somebody do something that I didn’t think was possible. This type of work that I was like, this is hooey, this is nonsense, and then watching what happened, and then being like, huh. That just flipped everything I thought I knew in my head. How do you do that? And then, now, learning how to do that, everything really just truly is energy. It really is. And, that was where medicine was before pharmaceuticals. And so, there was like a split, and we followed the money. And, that’s where it went. And, certain people won that split.

Amy Stein:

Yeah. And, a lot of people did it.

Michael:

Yeah. And, that’s where we went pharmaceuticals over energy as medicine, and things like Qigong and Tai Chi and Chinese medicine and acupuncture, and these things. They’ve known it forever. Even indigenous and native cultures know that and that how they work, too. There’s plenty of research that I was blown away to find on different aspects of energy and things that in Western culture we tend to turn away from. But, there’s way more science to it than I thought there was. You get into quantum physics and neuroscience and all kinds of it. It’s pretty undeniable when you look at the bigger picture of it. It just doesn’t fit our medical model so it always get frou’d-frou’d away.

Amy Stein:

They think you can’t make money off it, right? So, plant medicine, you can grow your own plants, you can make your own medicine, where’s the money in that?

Michael:

Yeah. The medical systems entirely driven by that. And so, is most of things. Most things. Studies are very expensive to run.

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

I know, [inaudible 00:37:33] pretty well, who recently finished a study with Dr. Dale Bredesen reversing dementia and Alzheimer’s in people. And, it cost, I think, it was a million and a half dollars to do a study with 20 people.

Amy Stein:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Michael:

And now, they got funding to triple the size of that. They got a $5 million grant to now do 60 people.

Amy Stein:

Right.

Michael:

Drug companies do studies with 1000s of people in them, because they can spend millions and millions and millions of dollars and people will fund this because if they get a certain result, which is manageable, then they get more money, and then they can sell the thing. They just put out a drug for Alzheimer’s this last week, that’s $60,000 A year, I think, to take it.

Amy Stein:

I know.

Michael:

And, three people at the FDA quit over it being approved.

Amy Stein:

I know.

Michael:

And, they have a pretty low bar at the FDA for what their morals are at. And so, for three people over there to quit because something was corrupt is like, pretty damn extreme. And, it’s 60 grand a year to use a drug that marginally sort of works if it’s a certain population. Yeah, it’s all money. And so-

Amy Stein:

And, that’s why I took it back, is that’s how I became empowered is, I did it for myself, right? So, I wasn’t relying on the medical model anymore because I don’t have any qualms. I was saying, I lost hope in it and I’m not really thinking it’s going to get back. Emergency medicine is completely different. You know, I cut off my arm, I’ll go to the hospital.

Michael:

Yeah, for sure.

Amy Stein:

But, anything else with chronic pain or chronic conditions, it completely failed. And, it completely failed me and it completely failed a bunch of people. Even recently, my pre-diabetes turned into Type 2 diabetes, right? Even though I eat a really good diet, I don’t eat processed food, I eat quality meat and protein and organic vegetables. And, I treated it with homeopathic. My doctor was floored. She wanted me to go on Metformin. And I’m like, “Absolutely not. I’m going to treat this my way and if it doesn’t work in six months, we’ll readdress it.

But, between homeopathic and some other changes… I don’t believe there’s one magic pill for everybody, even with alternative treatment. There’s no quick fix. I hate to tell people, there’s no quick fix. I used to tell my patients when I worked with them, there’s no magic pill. Not every diet works for every person. I’ve been on a lot of different diets. I do what works best for me. And, that’s what I think is the most important part, is people have to realize that they have to reconnect with themselves on a higher level.

Michael:

You mentioned, knowing when you’re overstepped, or when you’re too extended or you’re too tired or things like that. Your body will have science. You’ll get messages, you’ll feel a certain way, you might feel a little… and our tendency, and what we’re taught to do is push through. And, if you don’t, something’s wrong with you. And if you complain about it, or you tell somebody, I can’t do something, then you’re letting them down, or you’re weak or this or that. And, I have witnessed, with Mira and my own… My struggles have been more mental, emotional, spiritual, not physical. I’ve somehow miraculously not really had any health issues, considering I did everything I could to destroy my body for about 15 years. It’s very resilient. So I’m grateful there.

But, with her, the signals will get louder when you don’t listen to them, until they will halt it. And, that’s where Gabor’s book I mentioned before we came on, when the body says no, that’s the whole premise of the book. That’s, when you get to a certain point, it’s just going to say no for you.

Amy Stein:

Yeah, my body shuts down.

Michael:

And, that can show up as an autoimmune conditions, it can show up as cancer, it can show up as chronic fatigue syndrome, it can show up as a lot of different things… debilitating depression. It will shut you down really quickly. So,  connecting to that knowing and the subtle sensations. I don’t need the pain to be at a 10 to notice it, I’ll notice it when it’s starting to creep in to be a 1. And then, it’s like, okay, weird, that doesn’t feel good. I need to rest the rest of the day, and take care of myself and do what feels good.

Mira started doing this thing when she comes home from work, that’s just like toning sound. Just with he own-

Amy Stein:

Yeah, I do that, too.

Michael:

Like, a [inaudible 00:41:56].

Amy Stein:

Yeah, me too.

Michael:

Like, a sound like that. And, no one taught her to do that, no one told her to do that. When she would come home from a shift in the ER, she would lay down and put her hand on her chest and do that. And, I’d say, “What are you doing?” She’d say, “I’m vibrating.” And, I don’t know, it feels good for my body.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

And, starting to learn, it feels good for my body and trusting that and not needing to be told by someone that you need to do this, that wasn’t something-

Amy Stein:

No.

Michael:

I’ve learned if I want her to try something or do something, the last thing I should do is like, tell her to do it. Yeah, maybe leave a book about it on the table, but don’t say you need to do this, you should do this. Because, after you’ve been through the wringer with the medical institutions, and people invalidating you and telling you what to do and all these things, that’s not helpful.

Amy Stein:

Oh, when people offer you suggestions, have you tried this, right? Like you haven’t tried everything and then some to get better.

Michael:

Yeah. And, they’re usually 19 steps ago for you.

Amy Stein:

Exactly.

Michael:

They’re something you tried seven years ago.

Amy Stein:

Exactly.

Michael:

Is there a cutting edge thing that they just read an article about or something.

Amy Stein:

But, it was just like in the paper, right, but we knew about it 15 years ago? Yes. Yeah, that’s been hard for me too, is just trying to figure out how to talk to people in a way that does not shame them, right, and cause more internal trauma for them. And, in a way that can make it accessible for everybody. Because, unfortunately, I fear that it’s already an epidemic now, autoimmune. So even if you’re not aware that you have something going on, your body’s already feeling it, right, the 5G, EMS, the poor diet, the toxins, heavy metals, your body’s already feeling it and already trying to cope, and it’s not.

So these people may be failing after you’ve already fallen down the hole. So that’s something I tried to think about, how would I explain this to somebody who has no idea that their bodies are experiencing this? How would I make it so that they understand that these small changes will make big differences. Yeah, it may not completely reverse everything, but doing a castor oil pack-

Michael:

Oh, it’s just a million small changes. It’s changing the way you relate to yourself and your body and the whole situation. So many times with chronic disease, the body becomes to enemy.

Amy Stein:

Yes, exactly.

Michael:

It hears that and it knows that and that’s not what we need, right? It’s always doing its best at 100% of the time, all the time.

Amy Stein:

To rebalance. Exactly.

Michael:

And, the messages you’re getting and the symptoms you’re getting are like the light turning on in your car.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

And, if we just turn the light off in the car all the time, the car will explode.

Amy Stein:

Right.

Michael:

So you need signals, you need the warnings, you need the symptoms, and it’s not fair and it’s not… I think the most frustrating thing, at least for her is when, there’s other people that do tons of stuff that-

Amy Stein:

Works.

Michael:

That way worse than any… She’s always eating pretty clean, she never really drank a lot, she never partied… Our backgrounds are very, very different. I’m the one that did all the things that were horrific for me, and she’s not and she’s the one that’s been really sick and I’m not. There’s a resentment there, not towards me but towards life. Like, why does this happen to me? Why is this me? These people are all out drinking and doing all these things. If she went out for like two nights in a row and partied till two in the morning, and… Whoa, I don’t even know what would happen. It would be catastrophic yet that’s like most people’s lives.

And, there’s attachment to wanting to be normal. And, our normal sucks. Our normal is just not good and healthy. And, it’s not something to attain to. One of my favorite quotes is, I don’t remember exactly how it goes, but, is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a sick society.

Amy Stein:

Exactly.

Michael:

And so, the things that I thought I was missing out on when I shifted my whole life about social things and going out and all those things, that lasted for a little while, there was this FOMO for a while, and I was like, man, you couldn’t pay me to go somewhere at 10 o’clock at night now. Are you kidding? If somebody was like, hey, I’ll meet you there at 10, I’d be like in the morning?

Amy Stein:

What does that mean?

Michael:

There’s no place I’m going at 10 o’clock at night, that’s just not going to happen, because I’ll feel like hell the next day, and that’s not worth it to me anymore.

Amy Stein:

No.

Michael:

Yeah, people can respect those decisions. And, if you know somebody in your life that’s dealing with chronic disease, just be mindful of this. This is the world they live in. That’s the-

Amy Stein:

This is their every day. It’s their every day, that debilitating fatigue. You see all this thing about the COVID long haulers, right, [crosstalk 00:46:32]. People in the autoimmune community have been suffering like that for so long, and there’s no money towards the researcher for fatigue. Finally, Dr. Stephen Baum, he’s a big fatigue doctor, I’m sure you know who he is, he finally got research money for fatigue research. It took him 40 years to get substantial money [crosstalk 00:46:52] to do research on fatigue only because it’s COVID.

Michael:

Because, there’s not going to be a pill there.

Amy Stein:

Right.

Michael:

The reason they got the money is probably because they think there’s going to maybe be some sort of crossover between what he’s doing and some sort of treatment for either COVID or something else, or something that they’ll be able to turn into a drug or something because chronic fatigue syndrome is not going to be treated with a drug.

Amy Stein:

No.

Michael:

So that’s why it doesn’t get attention.

Amy Stein:

Well, they tried to treat it with a drug because they gave it to people with fibromyalgia. They have you-

Michael:

Yeah. But, LDN is more effective than that.

Amy Stein:

Right.

Michael:

Chronic fatigue is just a very loud shutting down of the body.

Amy Stein:

And it is, throughout a lot of conditions, right? I think there’s this misnomer. And, it’s also been vilified as a psychological issue, when the data shows that it is a very physical issue. So, that’s another issue in this community is that you’re told you’re crazy a lot.

Michael:

Yeah.

Amy Stein:

I was from that background, and to be told, just go back to therapy, just take a pill. I’m, wow, this is how we treat people like this?

Michael:

Millions of people. Most people, that’s how we treat them, and they’re chronically ill. For anything that the medical system doesn’t have an answer for. Yeah, it’s maddening. And, the funny thing about it, it’s in your head, it goes full circle. It stays in your head and then you’re like, screw you, my symptoms are physical. And then, what we realize when we go further down it is, it’s not in our head, but it’s in our being.

Amy Stein:

It’s the whole body.

Michael:

Yeah, but it’s the mind, it’s the emotions, it’s the trauma, it’s the things which technically there is a psychological component there, but the in your head part that they mean is not the in your head that is the reality of the thing. It’s like 20 levels too shallow for that.

Amy Stein:

But, that’s because we only do the physical and the mental component, there is no spiritual or motion component in our society. And, that was what was lacking in my care as well. And, it took me having to get that skill set for myself. There was nobody there doing it for me. And, I think that that’s the huge disconnect is that, they don’t look at it as a whole. Even in the functional arena, a lot of those doctors don’t have the time or the skill set, or they don’t have someone in their office who’s trained in that to teach people energy healing work they could do themselves. I taught myself the body codes.

Michael:

I just had a meeting with Brad Nelson yesterday.

Amy Stein:

Oh, yeah. How funny.

Michael:

Yeah, we’re going to have their stuff on the new platform.

Amy Stein:

Oh, that’s great. And, the other things you’re saying about the humming. I was doing it before, actually, we started our podcast to try to get myself back into my body, and to be connected so that I could be fully on for this, right, and give the best version of what I want to give. And so, that I could speak from the heart and be able to resonate with the community so that they know that I get it. I’m living it still, I’m not out of it, right? It doesn’t really ever end, it changes. And, you have to change with it because it’s just another layer, that you’re peeling back. There’s something else you have to learn. So, in the past, I’d get really angry like, what now? Like, what am I dealing with now? Why is this? What am I not learning? What is happening here?

Now, I’ve learned through the work I’ve done, that’s not helpful, right? Because, it’s a form of self-hate, I’m just getting mad at myself again. So I’ve been doing the Ho’o Pono Pono Prayer for a few years, that helps as well, I’m sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you. And, I substitute people in my life who have hurt me. And, rather than say, I love you to them, I say I forgive you. Because, it may be hard to say I love you to these people that hurt us right or even to ourselves, so I forgive you. And, that was a huge part of my journey as well. But, it’s a whole moving machine. It’s not just one component. So it’s not just the diet, it’s not just the supplements, it’s not just… there’s a whole-

Michael:

Yeah, I wish we had an easier, simpler, faster, more easy answer for you. But, it’s simple in that it’s like, once you see the whole picture, it’s like, of course, all those things matter.

Amy Stein:

Exactly.

Michael:

Like it can’t not matter. Energetically, you know how you feel different when you go in a room of certain types of people or you’re in this place, you’re in the forest, for me, it shifts the entire way that my body feels. That’s just as real of a thing as having a headache or having whatever. And, we just need to see it as that and be able to learn to hear that and feel that and acknowledge that and make decisions based on that, too. Like, oh, I’m not feeling this thing. This isn’t for me. And, to trust that.

But, when you’re told that your opinion or your experience is invalid for years and years and years to like regain that trust of your own experience is super empowering. It’s a total shift in like, this is true, what’s happening to me is real. It’s true. It’s happening. This is true. I know it and other people see it now. And it’s real. Learning that that doesn’t matter. The other people can’t validate it for you.

Amy Stein:

Exactly. And, their opinions are none of your business right, [inaudible 00:52:00], right?

Michael:

Yeah.

Amy Stein:

And, with Dr. Kim, what’s been huge is she says to live through your heart, right? So, live from your heart rather than your brain.

Michael:

Which Kim is this?

Amy Stein:

Dr. Kim D’Eramo.

Michael:

Okay, yeah.

Amy Stein:

She’s in Colorado. So she says-

Michael:

A lot of people have told me I need to talk to her.

Amy Stein:

Yeah, she’s amazing. She’s amazing. I was dabbling into it before I was introduced to her. And, I found her on a podcast or something, right? It was just the universe bringing her to me. And then, once I started listening to what she had to say, and saw how real she was, she overcame her own health as well. It connected, right? It just felt right. So, that’s what my most important tip is to the people in this group is to go with what feels good for you. Because, what feels good for me may not feel good for you, what feels good for Michael may not feel good for you. But to go with what feels good for you. To reconnect with that, the innate intelligence of your body, the innate intelligence that’s always been there.

Even if you’re not spiritual, and you can’t connect to the higher power or the universe or archangels, or whatever you do… Like I pull an Oracle Card, that’s how I connect and ask what I should do with things. There’s so many different ways that you can connect. Sound healing, there’s so many different modalities, where you can find a spiritual connection without having to go to somebody that makes you uncomfortable. It’s a practice to, right, it comes. You build up on it with what you’re comfortable with, and more will be introduced to you. Because it’s all connected. So, you need to know what we brought to you. I’m a firm believer in that, because-

Michael:

You just got to be open to listening and to hearing it.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

Interesting. You hit on it, like, yeah, this is good, or this isn’t good.

Amy Stein:

My thing is, if you hear it three times, like if someone says me to me three times, like, oh, yeah, okay, I’m going to read that book.

Michael:

Well, Dr. Kim, that’s about the 10th time somebody brought it up, so I should probably connect.

Amy Stein:

Her book is a quick read. And, it’s the Mind Body Soul kit.

Michael:

Yeah. I think I have it bookmarked. I’m on her website. Dr. Kim D’Eramo.

Amy Stein:

Yeah.

Michael:

Okay. Mind Body Soul kit. Yip. I will make a note, too.

Amy Stein:

She’s got a lot of free resources that people… and she does a free webinar every week, on her site and on Facebook. I don’t know, I recommend her a lot. I started a Facebook group to teach people about the power of the plants and I post her videos because I feel like-

Michael:

Cool, can we link your Facebook group under the archives?

Amy Stein:

Yes.

Michael:

All right, I’ll get the link from you. So if you’re watching, I’ll put her website on here too, because why not?

Amy Stein:

Yeah. She’s great.

Michael:

We’ll get Dr. Kim’s website down below. We’ll get your Facebook group and then anything else you want to share with us that you’ve mentioned that you think would be worth [crosstalk 00:54:52] DNRs website?

Amy Stein:

Yeah, micro formulas, I think, would be helpful, too. Because it’s a foundational protocol and that was the one that I feel has helped a lot of people, because I did so many protocols before that, and it wasn’t… So what’s great about that protocol is they have videos every week, right? And so, the doctors come on or affiliates that work with them come on, and they educate. It’s an educational platform. You can create an account, it’s free. And, it’s not just willy nilly, you take these things. But, again, I listened to my body with it. I did not take it at full recommendation, I took it at half. And I’ve still never gotten up to… Some people are dosing really high. That’s not for me. And, I know that. And, some people learn the hard way. In the past, I’ve learned the hard way. But, that’s the only protocol I did that I did not get sicker on. So, I would definitely recommend that protocol.

Michael:

Good to know. We’re looking at bringing some of their software products into our shop. It’s just it’s tough, because it’s their CellCore protocols are like a zillion products so they recommend you do all these things. And so, we’re trying to figure out which ones-

Amy Stein:

It’s jaded. Well, the drainage products, like the lymph and the Tudca, anybody could take those because they adjust drainage, right? And, a lot of people in this group have an issue with drainage. So, either they’re not pooping every day, or they have so much crap in their body, their body can’t get it out, right. So, the first phase is drainage. So, the lymph and the Tudca would be, I think, the best products to start with, because they adjust drainage and they’ll start opening things up for people. Those are the ones I take consistently. I don’t take all the products consistently anymore, because, energetically, I don’t feel that I need them, I only did it for three years.

So, that’s another thing is just, you have to trust yourself, right? That you know better than anybody else. You know better than I know you, you know better than the doctor knows you, you know what’s best for you. So just remember that you have that knowledge, you just have to tap back into it. Because, we’ve been taught that we don’t know better. The doctors know better, everyone else knows better, but you, right? Your mom knows better, your husband knows better.

Michael:

Especially for people who have been sick since they’re young and got disregarded and all of that. It’s been years of that. Our mind will believe those stories.

Amy Stein:

Exactly. So, you know better, you know best. Remember that. Connect to that again.

Michael:

We’re about at time. This was great. I think that you gave people a really solid glimpse into what it really is like to go through the wringer with mystery chronic disease and frustration around doctors and not being validated and not understanding what’s going on and trying a million different things and healing. I could just feel your frustration when you talked about how regimented you were and how structured everything was and how it wasn’t working, and you’re trying all these things. I know what that’s like, and it’s like a full time, 24 hour a day job that’s exhausting and it’s like panic inducing. It’s, I’m never going to get better, this is always going to be like this.

Because, you lose the ability to see outside of the immediate bubble of hell that you’re in and it’s confusing and you don’t trust anything. So, I think that the lessons you learned in that journey are really beneficial for everybody to hear. And, I think that that’s what we’re really looking for is to bring that to people to hear that coming back to being able to read and listen to the signals in the signs and trust that, there’s deeper levels to this. I know that we’ve taught in this platform mostly around diet and lifestyle and supplements and nutrition things. There’s a whole nother level to this that I’m building with another platform to bring over there to kind of connect the two.

But, most people stop there and a lot of people that’s going to limit your ability to heal so the energetic, the trauma, the spiritual, the emotional side of things, is what moves the needle for a lot of people when they’re stuck. And, it also shifts how you experience the struggle to begin with which then reduces the stress signals on the… It starts a chain reaction that only good things will come from, so I would recommend diving-

Amy Stein:

It’s not easy.

Michael:

No, it’s not. And, it causes you to face a lot of things, too.

Amy Stein:

To face your demons.

Michael:

Yeah.

Amy Stein:

You have to face your demons. But, in doing that, you learn so much more about yourself. And, it makes you feel much more worth it.

Michael:

Well, thank you so much, Amy. I really appreciate the openness and vulnerability that you shared everything with. I’m sure that, over time, some of this stuff is becoming easier to talk about. But, I know that, for a while, it’s really challenging to even talk about some of these things because it’s super triggering to bring up where you were and people not hearing you and not listening to you. And, when I brought that up, I could like feel the charge. You’re just like, yeah, and then they told me I was crazy. There’s so much anger there. There’s parts of us when we go through that type of stuff that need to be validated. They need to hear that your experience was true and that really happened. And, I’m sorry that that happened and that people should have treated you like that.

And, if you’ve never heard that, it can be a really powerful thing for people just to get that validation. So I just want to commend you on sharing so openly and so many people benefit just from hearing that they’re not alone, like going through this stuff, that it’s not just them. They’re not the only ones. We’ll link your Facebook group down below so people can come find you over there.

Amy Stein:

Great. Yeah, I would love that.

Michael:

Cool.

Amy Stein:

I love that. Thank you so much.

Michael:

Thank you. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was great to meet you and to chat with you and I really appreciate the share.

Amy Stein:

Thank you.

Michael:

And, this brings us to the end of today’s episode. Head on over to rebelhealthtribe.com/kit to access our RHT Quickstart bundle, which includes four full length presentations, from our RHT masterclasses, two downloadable PDF guides, and a 15% off coupon which you can use in our retail shop. If you’re on Facebook, come and join our Rebel Health chat group over there. And finally, if you liked the show, please subscribe, leave a review and share with your friends. Thanks for joining us. I’ll see you again soon