Deep Dive: Understanding Genetics to Build your Personalized Road to Health

Michael Roesslein:

Good. I still have never, in all the webinars we’ve ever done, forgot to hit the recording button for the whole thing. I’ve never screwed the whole webinar before, so thank you for the reminder, Maryann. We’re here with Jaclyn Downs. My friend, Jaclyn. Thank you. We are going to talk about Nutrigenomics. That will be my first question in a minute, is what is Nutrigenomics? But we’re going to learn about how genetics and our genetic variations influence our health in ways that might be different than what people think. Because 10 years ago, there was all this craze that… I don’t know. Actually, it was older than that. It was like Clinton, when they did the genome project, and it was like, “Genetics will explain and solve every disease. If you have this gene, you get this disease. If you don’t have this gene, you don’t get this disease.”

As great as that would be if it was true, it’d be really simple. That’s not the case. We’re not talking about that kind of gene. We’re talking about something a little different that can influence your health in much more subtle ways and tricky ways and sneaky ways that you might not have any idea that genetics are playing a role. Before we do that, Jaclyn is a health coach. She has training in functional nutrigenomics, which we’re going to learn about here. You’ve worked with Tree of Life, you have a master’s degree in holistic nutrition. I’ve read your bio enough times that I’m actually not looking at anything right now, and functional fertility expert. Your new book just came out. I saw your unboxing yesterday or the day before-

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes, yep. Right here, yep.

Michael Roesslein:

… so we’ll talk about that too. Right there. How does that feel to hold that?

Jaclyn Downs:

I was pregnant with it much, much longer than my children. It’s been quite a few years, yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Jaclyn’s book is on functional fertility and helping women with really complex infertility issues. Go ahead.

Jaclyn Downs:

However, I did curtail it to fertility, but really the basic premise is common but lesser-known root causes of chronic inflammation and oxidative stress, and that affects your fertility. Really, anybody could benefit. Because everything that we talk about tonight as far as causes of oxidative stress and inflammation, there’s chapters on it in the book, and I can mention specifically which ones as we go through. But yes, you don’t have to necessarily be trying to get pregnant in order to get something out of the book.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, great. Congratulations on that.

Jaclyn Downs:

Thank you.

Michael Roesslein:

I know how long it’s been since you’ve been working on that, so-

Jaclyn Downs:

Thanks.

Michael Roesslein:

… it has to feel awesome to get that. Yeah, Debbie, my volume is up a hundred percent, so I can’t turn it up any higher. It’s all maxed out. I can’t talk very loud, because it’s one in the morning and my wife is sleeping. I’ll do my best, but this is as loud as it’s going to get from my end. My first question is, people hear genetics, they want to learn about genetics. I’ve been using the term functional nutrigenomics in the emails. What does nutrigenomics mean?

Jaclyn Downs:

Nutrigenomics is basically just the interplay between how nutrition affects your genes and how genes can affect your nutritional status. Simple enough.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

Rather than just looking at specific genes, like genetic mutations. Especially with the fertility community, they’re getting tested for sickle cell, and Tay-Sachs, and that kind of stuff. Those are genetic mutations, where functional nutrigenomics is looking at the whole genome, and the interplay of all of those upstream and downstream, and the interplay of the pathways to see what your genetic predispositions are for certain things like sources of inflammation, or neurotransmitter metabolism, or fat utilization. Those kind of things. They’re not really genetic mutations. They’re single nucleotide polymorphisms, which occur much more frequently than genetic mutations do.

Michael Roesslein:

That’s the term SNP, yeah?

Jaclyn Downs:

Yep.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. Can you just real quick glance over again what that means, like what is a single nucleotide polymorphism versus a genetic mutation one more time for the kids in the back?

Jaclyn Downs:

If you want to think about it, like in my book, I use the analogy of a recipe. You have the recipe, which is the genome that you’re born with. They’re small little changes, which are basically amino acid substitutions, and they can change the way that a protein functions because amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. In high school, I just thought proteins were muscle, right? But proteins are hormones, they’re neurotransmitters. They’re enzymes of all different sorts, not just digestive enzymes. Enzymes make everything happen in the body. Our genes are the blueprint and they code for making an enzyme, and that enzyme is what makes everything happen. And so when you have genetic polymorphisms or SNPs, the amino acids that make up that protein can be changed a little bit.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, so then the enzyme that is responsible for encoding or creating could be… You could have more of it or less of it, or it could function better or function worse, or something that could lead to some chain reaction?

Jaclyn Downs:

You got it. Yep, 100%.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. When I first started learning about SNPs was like 10 years ago-ish when MTHFR came out, and it was touted by some to explain every single health problem that we have. And if you have that mutation, you’re like doomed, but you have to take this supplement and this supplement and this supplement. Everyone needs to take that. That was the whole thing. Then there were these reports that came out that were basically DIY. If you have this gene, you need this supplement. If you have this gene, you need this supplement. Or you can’t take this supplement, or you shouldn’t eat this food or you should eat this food. It was very like [inaudible 00:06:37]. If this, if this, then this.

I always kind of intuitively had a little bit of a problem with that. I thought that that isn’t as simple, probably. I think once it was discovered, that that actually isn’t how that works, there was kind of a little backlash against genetic testing, sort of. It got all the rage, and then it kind of went a little bit back. Because people started to realize that those cookie-cutter things, people weren’t getting results from them. So, why is it important to have skilled interpretation of these things? Why is it that I could have a certain SNP and somebody else could have it, and I have the problem that it could present with and they don’t?

Jaclyn Downs:

Just because you have a genetic SNP does not mean that it’s expressing. I state that numerous times in my book, and in any talks that I give, any articles I write. That’s the most important takeaway here. Just because you have it doesn’t mean it’s expressing, so that’s when it’s nice to pair with functional labs and symptoms and a detailed intake, so everybody’s buckets for different things are different sizes based on your exposures. Have you lived in a moldy house, or did you have a whole bunch of mercury exposure? Those things are going to be more likely to… I don’t necessarily want to say turn the genes on because it’s not a matter of on and off. It’s more of a dial switch, so it can turn them up or turn them down.

Also, genes do not work in isolation. Just because you have this one genetic variant, you could have another one that sort of negates it or compensates for it, or you could have another one that does the same thing or exacerbates it. Really, you have to take the whole genome into play. I really just get fed up when people say, “Well, my doctor tested me for MTHFR.” First off, they’re charging hundreds of dollars for just testing MTHFR. No gene works in isolation, and that’s just a pin prick idea of the whole entire picture.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. What are the factors that, and you mentioned gene expression. That’s like, “I have hemochromatosis. I have high ferritin,” which we’re going to get into my genetics in a minute. There’s genes that are often a associated, or SNPs that are often associated, with that. The HFE and a couple other ones. I haven’t determined yet if the HFE SNPs are the root cause of my hemochromatosis, but there can be people that have those HFE SNPs and they don’t have high ferritin, and there’s people who have high ferritin that don’t have the SNPs. You mentioned mold. Mold can flip switches with genetic expression. Exposure to toxins, I’m guessing, across the board, but what other factors are there that can determine like gene expression?

Jaclyn Downs:

All kinds. Emotional traumas, nutrient deficiencies. Just the plethora of toxins out there today of various sorts. It could also be nutrient excesses as well.

Michael Roesslein:

Stress?

Jaclyn Downs:

Absolutely, 100%. I roll that in with trauma, but yeah, they are completely separate too. There’s various forms of stress. In my book, I state that it’s not just the stress of worker relationships. It could also be physical stress, like overdoing it with an exercise that isn’t right for your body. Or it could be oxidative stress, which has to do with stress to our cells from many different things. They’re all kind of rolled together in oxidative stress.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. I’m sure nobody here can relate to any of those triggers of gene expression, especially stress, because nobody’s stressed these days. Oh, go ahead.

Jaclyn Downs:

Then inflammation itself is just a negative feedback loop, so what you were saying about ferritin. Ferritin is an acute phase reactive, so it rises in cases of inflammation, and so the inflammation often has a negative cycle feeding itself.

Michael Roesslein:

It’s giving signs to the genes that something’s wrong?

Jaclyn Downs:

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Then the genes sort of go into survival mode, if you will, which is coincidentally what shuts off mating ability. Is the body is in an emergency mode, and so it knows that now is not a good time to make a baby.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, and then we try to override that with… I’m not going to go on a whole nother [inaudible 00:11:32]. Yeah, but we try to fix nature a lot. So, genetic testing. What’s the breast cancer?

Jaclyn Downs:

The BRCA.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. There’s people who will get that tested, and they have certain genes, and then they’ll just remove the breast. Or there’s APOE4 now with Alzheimer’s, or dementia, or neurodegeneration. That’s a different kind of genetic testing, I think, at least in what we’re talking about here. Because there’s all kinds of genetic reports out there now, and there’s some that are really good. I love the one that you guys work with. There’s a couple other out there that I think are pretty solid and pretty comprehensive, as far as what they look at. Then like you said, there’s doctors charging hundreds of dollars to test one single SNP that has moderate influence over anything. Why did you choose to work with the genetic testing and the company? It’s Bob, right?

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes.

Michael Roesslein:

Bob Miller, it’s his software? Why did you choose that, and why do you feel like it’s the best testing reporting out there?

Jaclyn Downs:

There’s a couple of reasons why. First, the software was originally built off of 23andMe, and then in August of 2017, they changed their chip from version four to version five. They took out about 7,000 relevant SNPs, which left all of the genetic interpretation software scrambling. Bob went ahead and we were able to put back in all of the SNPs that they pulled out, but we also were able to cherry-pick SNPs that 23andMe never even had. Like the SUOX gene, which converts your sulfite to sulfate. 23andMe never had that, so I just feel like this is way more comprehensive.

Plus, most genetic interpretation softwares only run clinically validated SNPs that have the research behind them, but sometimes there can be hundreds of SNPs for one gene, and they might only report on three. A lot of tests I’ve seen only have three GSTs, which are your Glutathione S-transferases. But really, there could be dozens of them, and just because they don’t have the clinical validation yet doesn’t mean that they’re not relevant. I like how Bob’s software has the clinically validated ones and then all the informational ones, so you can take the whole picture together and weigh that with the other variants that it can be affected by and get a better idea of how impactful your genetic profile is for that gene.

Michael Roesslein:

I just like the colors.

Jaclyn Downs:

And it’s color coded, yes.

Michael Roesslein:

So, it’s very easy for people to understand at a high level. Like it’s these colors mean, “Hey, this could really be something going on here,” or, “This is something to look at,” or, “These ones are probably pretty solid.” When I’ve been walked through, it was helpful for me, the genetics Neanderthal, to have the very nice pretty colors and the sections and the groupings. It’s super comprehensive. Then yeah, the amount of SNPs that are covered is pretty extreme. It’s actually fairly outrageous. I don’t know how many hours have gone into the creation of that software, but it’s more than a lot.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Like thousands and thousands and thousands.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, there’s hundreds of thousands of them.

Michael Roesslein:

Hundreds of thousands of SNPs. How long have you been working with it?

Jaclyn Downs:

I actually got hired by Bob Miller about 10 years ago to research MTHFR. I just laugh about that, because it’s so much more than just MTHFR. What I got hired to do quickly turned into this, and this gene and this gene and this pathway, and this pathway and that pathway, and it is what it is today.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, and we met almost that long ago. I remember when it was still much more simple software. I saw it many, many years ago, and then I saw it this year and I was like, “Holy shit, that’s a lot more stuff in there than there used to be.”

Jaclyn Downs:

It started as an Excel spreadsheet.

Michael Roesslein:

Because it’s an endless rabbit hole to go in, like it’s literally endless. As far as benefits of knowing this information, like I know what it’s shifted. There’s a few supplements in my cabinet that wouldn’t have been there otherwise, that I wouldn’t have known to take, and then there’s certain things in my fridge or not in my fridge that are based on some stuff I’ve learned through the testing. But what kind of benefits, whether it’s with the fertility folks that you’re working with or just general people you’ve worked with, like why would anybody want to know this? We’ll learn more in a minute because we’re going to look at mine, and you can kind of get a taste for what information can come up, but what are the most common things that you see when you review the reports with somebody that’s like a light bulb moment, or like a “aha”, or, “This is important for me to know?” How does it change their approach?

Jaclyn Downs:

The one that I actually went over in the genetics and detoxification that I really detailed was glutathione. A lot of people in the functional medicine circles love glutathione. It’s our body’s master antioxidant, but a lot of people, especially with COVID and everything, started taking NAC. But if you have certain genes that affect your ability to assemble the glutathione tripeptide, cysteine is one of them, which is the NAC, and then there’s glycine and glutamic acid. If those can’t be assembled, then taking those precursors isn’t going to do you really well. It’s not going to do any good, so you should just get the glutathione or do other things, which I actually talk about in your report so you can really see why a supplement may have worked, or may have backfired, or caused adverse reactions.

Really, the biggest thing that I really like is seeing causes of inflammation or poor detoxification, so we can see various phase two liver detox pathways and, as we’ll go over as well, predispositions for bile flow. It doesn’t matter if you have squeaky clean gene in all your phase two liver detox pathways. If your bile is not flowing, those toxins aren’t coming out of the liver. Really, we can kind of see where the wrenches in the system are, or where in the haystack to look for the needles, so you get a really, really much better, more precise idea of what is going on with your body.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, that makes sense. For health practitioners, I know you do consulting for practitioners who want to incorporate genetic testing into their practice, and that Tree of Life does quite a bit of that. If there’s health practitioners watching this, whether they’re an ND or an MD, or a nutritionist or health coach, or anyone, what value does it bring to their practice to be able to incorporate this stuff?

Jaclyn Downs:

So much. For me, personally, before this software was really up and running, it was like I’d hit a roadblock, or like, “Oh, if only I knew a little bit more or could understand why this was happening.” Really, the genetic component is a huge missing piece in a lot of practices. Because without it, you’re just kind of guessing, or doing just generic protocols and hoping that they work on every single person when everybody’s biochemistry and genetics are different. So, it really takes out the guesswork and it really helps to eliminate a lot of roadblocks.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, and then it’s not just like the NAC and the glutathione. There’s a lot of instances where somebody might not do well. Like if somebody out there, which I’m sure we have because there’s a lot of people in our community that fit this criteria, of like, “Well, everybody does really good on this protocol, or on this diet, or on this supplement, or this thing, and then I took it or ate it or did it, and I felt like trash. That means that something’s obviously wrong with me, and I’m unfixable,” or whatever. Some of these things can be pretty easily explained. Like with oxalates or histamines, or certain other of these words that are now becoming much more well-known in this circle of people who have intolerances, or joint pain, or anything. There’s reasons why you might not want to throw 12 pounds of spinach in a blender.

Jaclyn Downs:

Right, right. Every single day, yep.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, so having practitioners able to identify this with their patients can be really valuable.

Jaclyn Downs:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, keto is just one. Some people just do amazing on it, and other people are terrible about it and feel terrible on it. You can get a better idea of why that is, and maybe you can do a supported keto. Just really support the utilization and digestion of your fats, if that’s something that you want to do. Especially if you’ve had mold exposure, I don’t recommend long-term keto personally. Most types of mycotoxins that we’re aware of are cleared through the phase two pathway called glucuronidation. Glucuronidation requires glucose, and so you’re not really able to support the functioning of that pathway to clear the molds if you’re not eating the glucose.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, that makes sense. Let’s, if you want to, jump into my report.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay. Do you want me to share my screen?

Michael Roesslein:

You should be able to, let me just make sure. I’m going to make you co-host.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

Sometimes it’ll let you, sometimes it won’t let you. There we go.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

Boom. Okay. I’m going to let me look at the chat real quick. Everybody give me, or someone give me a sign that this is visible.

Jaclyn Downs:

See a pyramid there?

Michael Roesslein:

Anybody? Yes. Okay, we got it. Cool.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

This can get really crazy. Let’s go slow at first.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

This is my actual genetics, like this is my test. You’re seeing under the hood of my genetics, so I feel like naked in front of a whole bunch of people, but go ahead.

Jaclyn Downs:

For every genetic and genomic interpretation that I do, first I go through and I’m sort of looking at opening all these up. These all open up. Then based on what you put in your health history intake… I won’t do this if you don’t fill out your health history intake form, because otherwise it’s just generic protocols. That’s why a lot of those bigger DNA services use a lot of canned responses. They don’t take into account your history, and your past diagnoses, and your past exposures, and what you’re doing currently, and what’s worked and what doesn’t work, and so I require everybody to fill out an intake form, or have a conversation with me or consult, so I can kind of get an idea. I put your primary health concerns, that way I know where in this pyramid to go, because I’m not going to go gene by gene by gene or block by block because we’ll be here for months.

Michael Roesslein:

Why not? There’s only like 57 million of them.

Jaclyn Downs:

Right, right. Then I write an overall takeaway, and then I sort of go through the blocks of the pyramid, but the basic gist of the pyramid here, and there are other ways to look at these, but this is the least chaotic for people, is the things on the bottom are things that cause a lot of oxidative stress and inflammation. Oxidative stress is basically damage to the cell, physical structure of the cell and the inflammation that the cell contains, and it is why we need antioxidants to neutralize the free radicals.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:24:04]

Jaclyn Downs:

… why we need antioxidants to neutralize the free radicals. So there’s that. And you can see, MTHFR is at the top. That is not something that we deal with because MTHFR is a building, repairing, regenerating nutrient, which is why pregnant women need it. And so when you’re building is on fire with inflammation, you want to put the fire out before you address rebuilding, repairing, regenerating, because it’s just all going to backfire. And I’m sure there are some people here that are listening that have done methyl folate because they know that they have an MTHFR variant and they felt great for two weeks, and then all of a sudden they crashed and burned and it did not work. This is why. So this sort of also gives you a roadmap of what to address.

Now all of these aren’t like… This isn’t in a exact order because I often like to start with the fats, carbs, proteins block as well. But especially for you, there was a lot going on in these first two ones. So the second one are all your antioxidants and detoxifying longevity genes. Nrf2, which you’ll hear me say probably about a hundred times tonight if we go through your whole report, and then these are some of your phase two liver detox pathways. You can see how variated they are. And like I said, this is one of my favorites here. And you can see, like I said… Oh, so here we can open it up and you can see various transporters, receptors, things that produce these and things that metabolize these. And so this is why everybody’s nutritional requirements are different.

And then like I said, there’s MTHFR and the methylation pathway up top that we don’t always necessarily make last. But like I said, there’s other fish to fry first. So in your case, I did mention… And I like to add a little bit of education, so it’s not just all biochemical science and this is what gene variant you have. I like to explain what could be going on. So this is basically saying if you have elevated iron or iron dysregulation, and maybe your iron and genes look fine, which actually yours do look okay… Your HFE… In order to have classical hemochromatosis diagnosis, you actually need to have three homozygous variants here. And these are the clinically validated ones. And like I said, there’s a bunch more that are not clinically validated. So even though you don’t have homozygous variants in those three particular ones, you do have some homozygous variants and some of them are more rare than others. So that can be [inaudible 00:26:41].

Michael Roesslein:

Can you explain what that means real quick, homozygous, heterozygous?

Jaclyn Downs:

Oh, so one means… So you get your genome, half from one parent, half from the other. And so when one parent passes on a variant to you, you are considered heterozygous. And if each parent passes on their copy to you, you are what is considered homozygous. And so being heterozygous oftentimes can affect the enzymatic activity up to 30 or 40%. Like I said, it’s a dial. And then being homozygous can affect that enzymatic activity by up to like 70%, so whether that’s a speeding up of it or a slowing down of it. And so twos, oftentimes, almost every time, are more impactful than just a one. And then these blanks just mean that they are the wild type, which means not-

Michael Roesslein:

It doesn’t have as much research behind it.

Jaclyn Downs:

No, no, it goes by population.

Michael Roesslein:

Oh, the blanks, if there’s no standard mutation.

Jaclyn Downs:

That means you don’t have any variance. You have-

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. Yeah. What are the question marks, the green question marks? Somebody asked in the chat.

Jaclyn Downs:

That’s for the practitioner to be able to read a little bit more about the research.

Michael Roesslein:

I got you.

Jaclyn Downs:

And sometimes they’re in here too, you can see here.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

I really like this because you can even open up the whole block and then you can see the metrics here. So based on your HFE, we can look and see the distribution. So you can see that this is the… Currently we have about 55,000 people in the software. So that’s the mean to compare you to. So you are a little bit more variated than the mean population of 55,000 people for that particular gene.

Michael Roesslein:

Cool.

Jaclyn Downs:

So again, I did write about how you do have some iron related SNPs, right?

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

Jaclyn Downs:

And that can cause a lot of inflammation through a pathway called the Fenton reaction, which is what creates a lot of free radicals. But I also mentioned that for us to have proper iron regulation, we need proper copper utilization because iron usage is dependent on copper. And then copper is dependent upon retinol, which is vitamin A, and ceruloplasmin. So after your iron related genes, I talk about your copper related genes because that’s actually where you look more variated. I mean, you have at a lot of twos here, and then this tells what percentage it is. So 22 and a half percent of the 55,000 people in the software have a homozygous variant there like you do. And some of them are much more rare, like less than 10% here. So rarity doesn’t always equal severity, but it can.

So I explained what I was seeing in your copper genes and then some other related, but your BBCMO1 is what converts beta-carotene into retinol. And remember I said you need retinol in order to have proper copper and proper iron. And so I highlight what my recommendations are or really important points. So even if you didn’t have any SOD variants, because copper… or sorry, superoxide dismutase is copper dependent, you could still have an issue if you don’t have enough copper, which is a co-factor. It’s required for certain processes. And that’s what I said nutritional deficiencies can affect the expression of [inaudible 00:30:20].

Michael Roesslein:

So now I’m taking vitamin A, I’m taking copper, and I’m taking those enzymes supplementally right now.

Jaclyn Downs:

Great. Yeah. And so for every person as well, just in case they don’t have access to it, I do… And you can see here. I put two different liposomal glutathione. So that doesn’t mean you have to get all $400 worth. That just means these are things you can choose from if you don’t have the wherewithal to [inaudible 00:30:44] from somewhere else. So that’s your iron and your copper.

And then I gave a lot of diet lifestyle things and supplement recommendations like Skullcap, Scutellaria, is great, so even if you just wanted to do it in a tea, that would really, really help. And then avoid cooking in cast iron pots unless well seasoned. I know that was talked about in your… Laura talked about that. And then iron and vitamin C. Vitamin C, it increases the absorption. So you want to avoid taking those together. So that’s the kind of stuff that I recommend. I did talk about your nitric oxide because that can contribute to something called NOS uncoupling. And that’s why I had asked you about cold hands and feet and a few other things because you do have some degree of variance in your NOS1 and NOS2. And so I talk about that, and I talk about how that causes NOS uncoupling, which creates a lot of peroxynitrite, which is a free radical that creates inflammation. But I also make some recommendations here. The simplest way is to ensure that your SOD catalysts and glutathione are working efficiently by… I love molecular hydrogen. That’s recommended-

Michael Roesslein:

I’ve taken it every night for maybe forever, like seven years probably.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yep. That’s going to be a good friend of yours for sure. So you’re already doing a lot of these things. And also, I don’t know if you guys have heard of Zach Bush’s Nitric Oxide Dump, but it’s free. It’s four minutes. It’s on YouTube and it’s a great way… I guess studies show that it promotes that. And then look, we go up to the next tier here, and we look at your antioxidants.

Michael Roesslein:

And I’d like to point out too, that NOS coupling, I have all those variants. And then you’d asked me, do I have cold hands and feet issues? And I said no. If I would’ve said yes, there probably would’ve been more focus there, and that would be an indicator that certain things are expressing themselves versus not. Whereas with the copper metabolism and the iron and the vitamin A and the copper, I do have extremely elevated ferritin. So like that one, yes. So that’s why you kind of chose there to make some more recommendations and suggestions where if my genes indicate something, but I don’t have any symptoms of it actively expressing or any reason for it, there’s no reason to… Because if you went through here and you found every single… And this is where the interpretation comes in huge.

If somebody untrained went through here and you could freak yourself out and see 10 million things, and you’d be taking literally 120 supplements and spending thousands of dollars a month, and most of that stuff is completely unnecessary. So what she’s doing is pairing what my genes say with what my intake says, with what my… I even gave her some blood interpretation. The more things you can see, you can tell what’s relevant here to that person and that they should focus on, right?

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes, absolutely. And also I would say if you are unsure or if you maybe had some more variants in your nitric oxide, you can always test your nitric oxide with the nitric oxide strips and see or do something like Berkeley Life or something like that that’s going to support your nitric oxide. And then you can kind of do a before and after with the nitric oxide strips. So I do recommend pairing… I think functional testing pairs really, really nicely, especially a urine inorganic acids test. And if you’re in the fertility or hormone camp, the DUTCH. And I like that the DUTCH steroid pathway map actually mentions which genes govern those pathways.

Michael Roesslein:

The cool thing about this testing, you mentioned the DUTCH, and I love the DUTCH test, I think it’s great for hormones. The organic acids is probably the most versatile of any functional test that’s out there. A trained person can get the most information out of that out of any test. And then blood testing is the gold standard for certain measurements and metrics. But those, you have to do them all the time. You have to do them every… Honestly, if I was working with someone intensely, I would want them to do those tests every three to four months probably to get… And that’s even a stretch because they’re a snapshot in time. So this-

Jaclyn Downs:

Right. Baseline, follow up, new baseline, follow up, yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this never changes. So you do this one time and then you just have this information, you never have to do it again.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yep. Absolutely. And also, if something’s not expressing as we get older or as we get more exposures, maybe you’ll know, hey, I’m pretty predisposed to having this happen, so good to know. So it is very empowering. There are some people that don’t want to get their genes red because they’re just thinking it’s going to be doom and gloom. But really it’s very, very empowering to know how to be proactive about your current state of health and your health down the road. So yeah, I talked more about the SOD and the catalase. And I have interesting tidbits here where, I don’t know how biochemical you want me to get, but superoxide is a free radical.

Michael Roesslein:

You can go a little.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay. Superoxide dismutase neutralizes superoxide by turning it into hydrogen peroxide. But hydrogen peroxide, while it’s needed in the body, too high levels can cause it to go down the Fenton reaction and cause more inflammation. So catalase and glutathione further neutralize the H2O2 into H2O and O2. And so you want to be careful with SOD because if you take too much and you don’t have enough catalase or glutathione, you’re not going to be able to neutralize the hydrogen peroxide, and so your hydrogen peroxide levels can increase.

Michael Roesslein:

The thing I’m taking has the SOD and the catalase both in it.

Jaclyn Downs:

Together, yeah. And I recommended something for you that has that. Yeah, there are things that you would… And I mentioned here that you start with catalase before bringing SOD in if you notice that you feel worse on them. So that would be fine. That would be clinical pearl, probably never would’ve known that otherwise. And then there are other-

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah. No, I had no idea. I didn’t know that. I didn’t even know what catalase did. And bonus, on catalase, when you buy it commercially, most of the bottles of catalase, the thing that they put on it, the claim or the reason that you want to take it, is because it reduces gray hair.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes. I actually asked if you… And I never noticed gray hair and-

Michael Roesslein:

Then [inaudible 00:37:28] was like, “Why don’t I have to take this?”

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. So it is associated with gray… I didn’t mention that because you don’t have [inaudible 00:37:37].

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but it’s-

Jaclyn Downs:

But that’s why I asked you about it.

Michael Roesslein:

I always [inaudible 00:37:39] seeing it on the bottle. I was like, “Yes.”

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. So there are other things involved, like the glutathione peroxidase variants too, which I mentioned some more common ones. But when they’re all taken together, just like your iron genes, you might have one here, one here, one here, and alone, they might not be problematic, but when you put them all together, that could just place weight on the side of the scale for there to be problems. And then glutathione, like I said, master antioxidant. However, while glutathione is very powerful, its power is very much dependent upon something called Nrf2.

So let’s dive into Nrf2 before looking at your glutathione, because really a lot in your case, and actually a lot of people’s cases, because Nrf2 is involved in so many things regarding detoxification and energy production, that’s more of going upstream and supporting the issue further upstream. Rather than just throwing glutathione at something, maybe you really want to do Nrf2, or maybe instead of just taking other supplements or antioxidants or something, supporting the Nrf2 can really help.

And I mentioned, like I said, Nrf2 a lot of times and molecular hydrogen a lot of times because molecular hydrogen is my favorite way to modulate Nrf2. Because Nrf2, think about it as a smoke detector and a sprinkler system. You want to make sure that the smoke detector is working adequately to tell the sprinkler system to go off. You don’t want it to be trigger-happy because you don’t want the water to be going off when there isn’t an issue. So you don’t want too much antioxidants and anti-inflammatory activity because we do need some degree of that to fight off pathogens. But you want to make sure that you have enough water to put the fire out.

So I go in, I kind of discuss that and what all Nrf2 is involved in. But basically, to be quick, it’s involved with glutathione, antioxidant recycling, production, and also with energy production and detoxification. So antioxidants, detoxifying and energy. And then this is actually the gene that produces the Nrf2. This is like the smoke detector, and you have a variant which causes you to hold on a little more tightly. So it’s a little bit more stingy with releasing your Nrf2. So the molecular hydrogen helps to keep that from being so sticky and stingy.

And then again, I make some recommendations here. Pulsing. Especially when you’re supporting Nrf2 or glutathione, something like that, I highly recommend two days on, two days off, three days on, up to five days on, two days off, depending on what you have going on, what your current status is. And then I have some other recommendations. Again, here’s molecular hydrogen. But sulforaphane, if you want to do it in food, it’s broccoli sprouts, chewed really well. Here’s a clinical pearl here for you. The amylase in our saliva is what helps to release the beneficial compounds in broccoli sprouts to make sure you chew them well rather than just putting them in a blender. And resveratrol and berberine have been shown to increase Nrf2. And then there’s also products. There’s even a multi-level marketing, like Protandim. I think that’s still around too. And that’s a decent one, but-

Michael Roesslein:

It is. It is still around.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. I know that my colleague Bob had formulated a Nrf2 accelerator or support or something like that too. So basically taking all the research, finding out what helps to modulate Nrf2 and then throwing it into a bottle. And then NAD and NADPH are dependent upon Nrf2 activity. So NAD is responsible for making ATP, or energy production. And NADPH is involved in our antioxidant defenses and antioxidant recycling. And really, nicotinamide riboside really supports that. So I did make a recommendation for a product that has nicotinamide riboside.

Are we good here? Everybody’s following? Okay. And so like I said, you can open this up, and then we can open the specific, and then it tells you a little bit more about it. And then I’m just kind of showing you. Oh, and I like how these are split into these are the evidence based, these are the clinically validated. And then the informational is also rated by the metrics. You can see red is way more variated, a negative number is more variated. Zero means you’re about on par with the mean. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have any. It means that you have about as many as the mean population in the software. And then if you have a plus, that means you’re less variated. So that’s what that is. That’s clinical validation and informational.

And so everybody that gets one of these genetic interpretations will have a summary like this, and then I will be doing a Zoom recording where I’m actually showing them their genetic profile as I’m going through showing them my findings. So here’s glutathione. So in your case, you wouldn’t fare well with doing cystine, glycine and glutamate to try and make your glutathione in your case because you have quite a degree of variation on your CTH. So NAC probably won’t do all that much for you. Because look, it’s a pretty uncommon variant that you have there. Not a whole lot of people have a variant there. And then your SHMT is what makes the glycine, and this one looks good. This one has some degree of variation.

And this is what I talked about in the genetics masterclass, the detox masterclass, the GCLC and the GCLM are what take those three amino acids and assemble them. And you can see, you’re variated here as well. So in your case, doing things like liposomal glutathione and/or resveratrol, molecular hydrogen, sulforaphane, those things can help support and compensate for your genetic variants. And there’s more here you can take a look at. But your gut health, your FUT2… I don’t know if you are familiar or that you know are considered a non-secretor. Were you aware of that?

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, I was.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay. Yeah. And Peter D’Adamo, the Blood Type Diet guy, you can kind of read about it there if you’re interested in what a non-SEC secretor is. And again, I explained it-

Michael Roesslein:

It can be a really big deal. I’ve just never presented with any of the signs or symptoms of it being a problem. So I’ve never really worried about it, but I know that it really affects the microbiome in a lot of people into a dysbiotic kind of way to where they have a ton of digestive problems and absorption problems and everything. I’ve been aware of it for five years and I’ve never had any related issues. So I just kind of-

Jaclyn Downs:

Well, that’s also because of your good friend, Kiran, right? And his amazing products. And actually, I don’t know why I forgot to… I might have done it and accidentally deleted it, but I did recommend MegaSpore, MegaPre here.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, they’re right there.

Jaclyn Downs:

I think those would be great supports for the FUT2, because basically the FUT2, secretor status aside, makes the prebiotics that feed the probiotics in your gut. So you’re going to need a bit more proactive supplementation with a probiotic or prebiotic to help compensate for that or support it.

Michael Roesslein:

Yep. So I’m sure the nine years of that hasn’t hurt.

Jaclyn Downs:

Right? Yeah. And you did mention oxalates. Yours look decent. I would say the AGXT is the most clinically relevant and impactful, and that’s where you have a more uncommon homozygous variant there. Now with just one, and because you did a 23andMe version 4, there are not all of them. So you can see there’s no clinically validated SNPs here, which on the genetic test kit that I use, the YGR, or the Your Functional Genomics it’s called now.

Michael Roesslein:

[inaudible 00:46:12] more.

Jaclyn Downs:

They have more, yeah. And that’s why I don’t recommend… Version 5 is even less. I kind of want to just put a blanket statement out there that I won’t interpret version 5 because I don’t think I would give the person the value for their money trying to glean what I can from the version 5. Now, if somebody was just adamant and doesn’t care and just tell me what you can glean from there, maybe I’ll make an exception. But version 4 still has enough information to get a pretty decent idea. So I talk about that. And I don’t have a whole lot of information on it because I would rather you spend your time elsewhere. As far as I know, you don’t have any oxalate issues. I’m sure you’ve done an OAT. An OAT would’ve maybe been an indicator. Now, that’s the big caveat there is the OAT test is a urine test, and your urine is only showing what your body is excreting.

So maybe your body could be really, really good at sequestering them, sweeping them under the rug into the tissues, and it won’t show up on your urine. So that’s when you have to really take a look at the genetics and the symptoms. And bottom line is any kind of pain presentation that’s not structural, especially around the pelvic bowl, kidney stones, vulvodynia, bladder issues, urinary tract issues, you might want to think about oxalates, especially if you have had mold exposure, or especially if you’ve been on a lot of antibiotics, and also if you have poor fat utilization because fat maldigestion is the number one documented cause of hyperoxaluria. Anyway, I spend a whole hour on oxalates with my clients. So that’s a huge topic. And I have a whole chapter on oxalates and iron dysregulation.

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:48:04]

Jaclyn Downs:

… Chapter on oxalates and iron drift regulation in my book, and histamine as well. But, bile flow, I really wanted to show you your bile flow genes because you got a whole lot of stuff lit up here, and also your vitamin D receptor.

This is where I was seeing a pretty big compromisation. But because you seem to be pretty proactive about supporting your digestive health and wellness, these might not be causing an issue. Some symptoms of bile issues, sludgy bile, will be gallstones, obviously, but stools that float, greasy stools, leaving skid marks in the bowl, light colored stools, dry skin, dandruff. Those kind of things can be indicators. And then, also your inorganic acids test is also really, really helpful.

I talk about the SLCOs and, again, I highlight or bold because the SLCO genes are involved with transporting toxins to be cleared. If you have variants here that might be less than optimal and you might have more circulating toxins in the blood paired with your ABCs that kind of do something similar, you do have a higher potential for retained toxins. So, it’s good that you do lead a pretty clean lifestyle and you’re not burdening your liver with all the modern day things.

The PEMT gene, and this is one of my favorites, this is the only gene in our body that makes choline. It’s very, very commonly varied. You can see you have variants on all those and you’re still about on par, if not a little bit better than the mean. So, I really, really recommend phosphatidylcholine here to support that, and also dietary sources of choline. Egg yolks are a great source if you tolerate them.

But, yeah, phosphatidylcholine is probably my favorite supplement across the board for so many reasons. Because, first off, your bile, it supports your bile flow and that helps to take the toxins from the liver into the gut. It also helps to emulsify your fats, which are needed to make hormones, and they’re needed for brain health, and they’re needed for liver health. They’re needed for so many things and especially fertility and growing a baby. And then, every cell membrane in our body is composed of phosphatidylcholine as well. So, super important for cellular health.

Then, I threw in some extra ones here relating to your fats that I saw. There were some more variants as well. There’s CYP and I talk about that one because it is so important. It is the rate limiting factor for bile synthesis. And you have four heterozygous, clin val SNPs, and a couple of the non-clinically validated,, and how there’s an association with fatty liver. And then, of course, I tell you how to support that with bitters, bile bitters, or you can do a little bit more hardcore stuff like TUDCA, bile acid factors, those kind of things.

The FADs genes are involved with taking your plant-based fats and turning them into the EPA and DHA. You do have some degree of variation there. You can see there’s quite a smattering. And then, you have 10… This tells you, this is heterozygous, this is homozygous. So, you have 10 heterozygous variants there. And that I just recommend, instead of getting flax oil or walnuts, if you really want to support in anti-inflammatory and brain health and stuff, I would recommend just getting the EPA and DHA. Again, I love the Mega Marine because it includes the pro resolving mediators. Fish oil is considered anti-inflammatory because the omega-3s convert into something called pro resolving mediators. I like how Mega Marine includes those as well, so your body doesn’t have to do any conversion, especially if you have genetic variants that compromise that.

Your vitamin D receptor. What are your vitamin D levels, historically, especially after living in San Diego? I’m just curious.

Michael Roesslein:

It didn’t change. It’s never changed. Usually, around 30, 35.

Jaclyn Downs:

Stubborn. Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay. Yeah. So, you’re definitely going to need a bit more proactive support, especially in the form of sunshine because that’s actually the form that… Sulfated as well.

Michael Roesslein:

We just moved into a place with a rooftop terrace, one of which reasons I wanted that was to be able to do that.

Jaclyn Downs:

Awesome. Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

Jaclyn Downs:

I’m not affiliated with Microbiome Labs at all. I just think that they’re a phenomenal company, I really like their Mega Quinone, if you need the support with K.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. And so, that’s everything. I could also show you… What? Neurotransmitters, there’s also some histamine stuff. I’m not sure…

Michael Roesslein:

Can you just browse through a couple of the sections we didn’t go over, not even getting into details, just showing them what’s there that didn’t light up on mine and didn’t have any reason to look at them. Like, here’s neurotransmitters and this would affect mood, focus, kind of thing.

Jaclyn Downs:

These are your monoamine oxidase, right? MAOA and MAOB. A lot of antidepressants work on the monoamine. And so, you look pretty good there. You look pretty robust there. As far as anxiety goes, your GAD genes are what convert glutamate, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter into GABA, which is a calming neurotransmitter.

Michael Roesslein:

Which is why some people feel terrible when they take glutamine. And everybody heard once upon a time that glutamine heals leaky gut. So then, glutamine became the hottest supplement in gut health. And then, we would have people in our Facebook group be like, “I took glutamine and felt like I smoked cocaine.”

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. Or-

Michael Roesslein:

And they would be out of their minds, and agitated, and anxious and up all night. And-

Jaclyn Downs:

This is why.

Michael Roesslein:

… that’s because they can’t convert it to GABA, which GABA’s a calming neurotransmitter.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. That’s also B6 dependent.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, so they’re deficient in B6.

Jaclyn Downs:

So, regardless of genetics, if an adult don’t have B6, that’s going to do it. But also, bone broth. People do bone broth because it’s glutamine. But, it’s really high in histamine, so then you get a double excitatory whammy. So, yeah, again, there’s not one thing that’s great for everybody.

BH4 is a really cool substance. I like it almost as much as Nrf2. BH4 is what takes our tryptophan and tyrosine and converts them into serotonin and dopamine. It’s further upstream rather than just looking at serotonin and dopamine. Let’s look at your BH4. How well is it converting? How well is it recycling? When it turns into serotonin and dopamine, it becomes BH2. And then, the DHFR and QDPR are what recycle it back up into BH4 so it can keep working and making those neurotransmitters.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

BH4 also-

Michael Roesslein:

I want to note here that I have had lifelong anxiety and depression, and things that would generally relate to neurotransmitters, and not everything is genetic. That can stem from trauma, it can stem from stress, it can stem from a whole bunch of things that are unrelated to your genetics. And that goes with other things here as well. There can be people that have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and they don’t have any genetics related to the bile flow, or the liver, or anything like that.

And so, I don’t want to come across like we’re trying to say that this stuff explains everything that’s ever going on with a person, or that if your boxes are green, like mine are there, that it’s impossible for me to have anxiety. This is just another super valuable tool to have to help make sense of your puzzle, to help personalize your approach in a way that you can’t do otherwise. So, I just wanted to throw that in there to point out that my little green mental health boxes right there, and it’s taking me a lot of work to get to the point where I don’t have crippling anxiety.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. And your previous lifestyle of drinking your face off…

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, it didn’t help a lot.

Jaclyn Downs:

Right.

Michael Roesslein:

Is there a don’t-drink-your-face-off gene?

Jaclyn Downs:

No.

Michael Roesslein:

Actually, when I ran the 23andMe, I was told that I had a genetic profile that would make it difficult for my body to process alcohol. That I shouldn’t drink a lot of alcohol because I can’t clear a certain toxin or something. Now, I don’t know how accurate the 23andMe medical stuff is, but there was something you pulled up earlier that looked like it would not clear certain toxins.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. Certain toxins are cleared through liver detox pathways. But also your acetaldehyde gene. This looks alarming. There’s a ton of them. So, there’s 18 pages of acetaldehyde genes in various forms. And it starts with all the homozygous 1s first. So, that’s why there’s a whole bunch of 2s here. But if you go to page 18-

Michael Roesslein:

It’ll be zero.

Jaclyn Downs:

And then, somewhere in the middle there, there’s going to be the 1s.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

So, for the genes that are not in that pyramid, you can actually type them. Your estrogen receptor gene is not in the pyramid. But you can look at it and see there’s only a few of them that we have, that we report here, and you can kind of see what your profile looks like. And then, we also… Not we, Bob, this is all Bob here. Different pathways, so if you want to look at a histamine one, it maps out the pathway, but it also shows you, with the color coding, where your weaknesses could be and where your strengths are.

Michael Roesslein:

I’ve been involved in building tech platforms and software and this, from a backend standpoint of how this all works and functions, is something that my brain can’t wrap its mind around.

Jaclyn Downs:

It’s like drinking from a fire hose.

Michael Roesslein:

The complexity of it though. But the way that you can look at it at a list, or you can look at it in a pyramid, or it breaks down the pathways, and you can look at it on a visual representation with flow charts, and then it matches it with the percentiles and the mean and the average so you can see where it all fit, there’s like 10 million things happening at once on this. That’s pretty wild.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, and that’s why I-

Michael Roesslein:

I don’t know who these programmers are, but they’re really good.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. They’re learning as they’re going, too, and they’re doing a decent job. I love the glucuronidation pathway here, too, because this is the phase two liver-

Michael Roesslein:

This came up a lot in the master class with six of the presenters.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes. I know I touched on it, too. I just feel like everybody gives methylation all… Methylation is actually a liver detox pathway, too. People focus on glutathione and methylation. In my book, I call glucuronidation the “unsung hero” because it is in involved with clearing almost all of your endogenously produced substances, including bilirubin and histamine, your sex and stress hormones. But also, it clears the most variety of mycotoxins. So, a lot of functional medicine practitioners will say, “Oh, you have mycotoxins here, take some glutathione.”

But glutathione studies, this is Neil Nathan’s work, show that the glutathione conjugation pathway only clears ochratoxin and aflatoxin, whereas there’s a whole bunch of ones that are cleared through the glucuronidation pathway plus cannabis. So, cannabis, mold, hormones, and then also just a lot of other toxins, and xenobiotics. This pathway gets overwhelmed easily, and then you’re going to go and be keto?

This really just helps to give you a better picture of what would work best for your body and what wouldn’t. But again, your genes are not your destiny because they may or may not be expressing.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, makes sense. Before we go too long, I want you to share the information about the genetic testing and what can be ordered. I’m going to have a link that I can put in the chat for now. I will send this out in an email. Everything will be organized for you.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

I put a link in there in the chat to anyone who would want to check it out. But just go through a little bit of how this works, and what’s offered, and what the package includes. This is something I definitely recommend, both for people looking to optimize their health, but also for practitioners to learn more about it. And that’s like a separate thing. So, if there’s practitioners watching this and they want to talk to you about consulting and everything, we’ll get you in touch with Jaclyn. But, if you’re looking to get a report just like this with a writeup just like this with a video just like this for you, this is how you do it.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. For the practitioners, I do offer an affiliate program. They know they want to use genetics in their practices, but they don’t have the time to do a whole training program, and it’s hours and hours and hours and hours and decades, then they can just say, “Hey, here’s a link and then you can report back to me and send the report.”

Michael Roesslein:

Then their clients and patients get reports from you, and the practitioner can see that and utilize it in their…

Jaclyn Downs:

Yep.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. So, they don’t have to become genetics wizards.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yep, exactly. Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, great.

Jaclyn Downs:

I know there was sometimes that I had wished that in the past. And then I already talked about the benefits of knowing your genetics are. And we just kind of went through these or some of the things that would be covered, which a lot of these are chapters in my books. Whoops. What is going on? There we go. Seven. So, the packages, whether you buy a test kit package or a 23andMe upload package, each of them come with the analysis of the results.

Michael Roesslein:

And these are only older 23andMe reports. I used my 23andMe report on there, but I got it like 11 years ago or something.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, yours is the version four.

Michael Roesslein:

Version four. When do they switch to version five or above?

Jaclyn Downs:

August 2017.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, so it’s been six years. So, if you got a 23andMe in the last six years, it’s probably best to not use that because they’re actually regressing and giving you less and less… Which is backwards. But the v5 is less than v4, which is probably less than v3.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. Funny how that works.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. So then, you get access to the client portal. So you can actually see some of your genes and play around with it. And then, a typed up summary of the findings, like I was using yours as a guide to show you where in the pyramid things were. And then, I make a personalized interpretation video. They’re roughly 40 minutes that may get shorter or longer as I do more. And then, you saw the actual recommendations that you can implement immediately. Then you get personalized supplement protocol. And also, you get a full script account, in case you would want somewhere to purchase them if you don’t already have a place. And then, also, an option to answer further questions or go deeper with a one-on-one consultation with me.

And then, we did set up some special pricing for Rebel Health Tribe, because I love you guys so much and I wanted to be able to offer this to Michael’s tribe. The kit currently is 599.99. If you buy the spit test, which is just a little vial, you have to get maybe two or three teaspoons of spit. There is a buccal swab for people that might not be able to collect that much. But that’s a special order, so you would have to contact me directly for that one. Or if you have a 23andMe upload, that one is currently 299.99. But, Michael, if you just want to tell them about the coupon and the package and-

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah. She made a coupon for us: RHTDowns. I just put it in the chat with the link. So, it takes 100 bucks off the package. This is not just for the test and the report, this is for the interpretation video, the interpretation typed up thing, and all recommendations and everything else that comes with it. So, it’s not like you are going to get unleashed on that pyramid and have to figure out all your genetics. You’ll have access to seeing that, but also you’re going to have a video breaking down the relevant things for you. Just like she did here with mine. The same thing, going through what’s relevant based on your history, which you would fill out. She has intake. That’s a simple health history form and that would be… What you would receive, the full breakdown, the full report plus the interpretation and the interpretation, like walkthrough video.

So, that’s something you could share with health practitioners that you work with. If you have a functional doctor or practitioner or coach, you can share that with them. Say, “I got this. Check this out.” This will influence all these things. And they should be able to understand the interpretation report and the interpretation video that Jaclyn makes. They may not be able to click into the software and read all the SNPs and understand everything that’s going on, but she creates these in a way that people can understand them. So, it’s only the relevant stuff and how it would show up, and what would be useful for you to know.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. Y’all, this is a great deal because these summaries currently take me quite a few hours. I originally went into this thinking it wasn’t going to take me that long, but I really want to make sure that you’re happy with the service and you’re getting what you are hoping to get out of it. And so, I haven’t whittled it down to being able to just turn it out really quickly. So, that pricing is really, really great considering how much time and intention I put into them. Also, you’re only ever going to need to do one test once because your genes won’t change.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. So, this is not running a $400 test every three months forever like a lot of the stool tests are. The full version of the organic acids test can get pretty expensive. The full DUTCH, when we were running them for Mira every three months, it was like $1,000-ish for the tests every three months. We probably did eight grand in lab testing over the course of that whole autoimmune situation. And you have to keep doing them. So it’s one time-

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. This will hopefully help you understand what’s going on. So you won’t need to keep doing all of those consecutive stool tests and everything like that because you kind of figured out the root issue of it and you can support it. It makes light bulbs go off left and right. That’s what people have said about it. That, like, “Light bulbs galore.” Putting pieces together, things are starting to make so much more sense. And all the practitioners that I worked with in the past, “I now understand why this didn’t work,” or “why I felt this way on that.”

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. There’s some questions. Was there anything else you want to share on here? Here’s the links. I put the link in there for one of them. Let me grab the link for the other one. The first link is for the whole test and the whole thing. And the second one is if you have an older 23andMe, that is the link for that. And we’ll send this in an email. It’ll be organized. We’ll break it down. It’ll be very simple to see and follow up with. We’ll make it really easy. So, don’t worry. Right now in the chat, can you answer a few questions?

Jaclyn Downs:

I’d love to.

Michael Roesslein:

Here is..

Jaclyn Downs:

Aw, thank you, Monica. I just saw your… Thank you. That’s really kind.

Michael Roesslein:

Let me get that. “Hi, Jaclyn. Are you able to do effective consults if I just have a DNA company report. And I know fertility is a focus of yours, but what about menopause and treatment with bioidentical hormones? Do you have expertise in that?”

Jaclyn Downs:

With the other companies, it’s uncanny how many clients I have come to me with reports from other companies saying, “Can you help me make sense of this?” That is why I chose to do this personalized video summary and why I put so much more time and attention into it. Because, as far as I’m aware, some of these companies give you 38 different reports. One on exercise, one on sleep, one on hormones, one on neurotransmitters, and you have to go and figure it out. Somebody was just telling me today that they did a genetic interpretation and they had these nine modules they had to watch or something crazy like that. So, it was a lot of your own information and education and really you’re paying all that money and you’re not getting any clarity.

I could maybe look at those, but it would take me some time because I’m used to seeing it in the way that I’m used to looking at it. So, if it’s just in a PDF where I’m scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and I’ll need to refer back up to here regarding this gene, it might take me quite a while. I could maybe take a look and see what I can glean from it.

Yes, I have other clients that are not anything related to fertility. We can have a 15-minute discovery call, it’s free, discovery call, and kind of tell me your situation. I can let you know that does sound like something I can help it or this is how I could help you. It may not give you the whole picture, but I can help you with this part and this part. And I’ll be honest with you if I can help you or not.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. I believe same person is speaking to the, “How do you know if it’s expressing concepts? I have slow AA COMT. But when I was tested in the past, I had low dopamine. Also, since this version of COMT slows estrogen clearance, I’m wondering if SAM-e or something with bioidentical, estrogen, progesterone, what are your thoughts?

Jaclyn Downs:

Well, COMT is just one gene that is involved with dopamine. You have your MAOs, you have your dopamine receptor gene. Then also, again, if you don’t have BH4, you’re not making the serotonin and dopamine. So, you can’t just look at one gene. And that just is so.

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:12:04]

Jaclyn Downs:

… dopamine. So you can’t just look at one gene, and that is just is so frustrating to me, because once it’s MTHFR and then it was COMT and it was CVS, and people are just focusing on this one gene, when really you have to look at the whole picture. I’m sorry I can’t answer that, because there’s so many other factors that could be affecting what you have going on.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

I mean, I hope that doesn’t sound like-

Michael Roesslein:

No, it doesn’t at all.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

Is it possible to do this test living in Australia?

Jaclyn Downs:

I believe so, because we do have practitioners. I know I’ve worked with a practitioner in Israel before. I think it just needs to be special ordered. It couldn’t be ordered through my website. I would need to get communicating with that person.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, that was three questions.

Do you find any value in looking at the raw data?

I tried one time to look at the raw data and I would sooner probably figure out something from reading a book in Russian, but what’s your opinion on that?

Jaclyn Downs:

That’s why we have all the interpretations to make sense of the raw data. It analyzes the raw data and then a skilled person will interpret what that analysis of the raw data is.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, yeah, I looked at it and it just looked literally like nonsense gibberish to me.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

How do we know if our health/detox challenge is due to a true genetics issue or a gut infection or say mold that is causing certain as SNPs to express? Is the best approach to correct for genetics when there is a clear issue to support the body or what comes first?

I wouldn’t think it’s an either or, it’d be a yes and, right?

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, the genetic provides the framework, but it’s not a diagnosis. If you know you have mold exposure, for instance, regardless of what you have genetically, you don’t even need to know your genetics to deal with that, so that would be my priority.

Actually with mold, I even tell people, if you’re currently living in mold, I would rather you spend your money on making sure that that is remediated, and then come see me if you have limited funds, wait till all that’s taken care of, because nothing that we do is really going to help you cross over into that threshold of healing and vitality if you’re still living in mold.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

How would you compare your report/software to that of the DNA company? Which I think you already talked about.

Jaclyn Downs:

Not only are you getting 38 reports, and I’m not … I mean, they’re brilliant, right? I personally haven’t done it, so this is just my assumption, but still it’s canned responses. So you have this heterozygous in this gene, so take this supplement, avoid this, and do these lifestyle things. Then 10 pages later, you have this genetic variant in this gene, so avoid this, take this and that, and they’re directly contradicting each other.

You get analysis paralysis, because you don’t know what to do, because that interpretation does not know your health history, your previous diagnosis, anything like that. This is so common, I’ve had plenty of clients that that’s happened to. That’s why I take the time and do what I do, because canned responses just give you more confusion.

Michael Roesslein:

I ran mine through a couple of those back in the day, and I just kind of stared at it like a deer in headlights and then closed it.

Jaclyn Downs:

Or else just recently, I made an Instagram post about this, somebody had run their genetics through another popular company, and I said, okay, so if you’re interested, great, but what was your overall takeaway from that? She wrote five points. It was increase my choline, eat more cruciferous veggies, sweat as often as I can, make sure I hydrate and use electrolytes. I was like, that has nothing to do with your genetics, that’s everybody-

Michael Roesslein:

Those are just good ideas.

Jaclyn Downs:

And I’m like, you paid how much money to get your genes read and that it pertains to everybody, so they can be really generic or they can be contradictory, is my final answer there with [inaudible 01:16:37] tests.

Michael Roesslein:

Your book, is it written for professionals or laypersons?

Jaclyn Downs:

Both. I’m so glad that they asked that because there are a appendices galore for almost every chapter. The main part of the text is written for the motivated layperson. This is not somebody that is really, really new to eating well and taking care of themselves, but the appendices have the biochemical, really technical and genetic information.

I was going to do two books originally and then I ended up just putting it all into one with appendices.

Michael Roesslein:

That makes sense. That’s a good approach because it could be two separate books.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah.

I’m hoping that practitioners will have it in their office to sell also. So they’ll use it as a guidebook or reference guide and then they can sell it to their patients as well.

Michael Roesslein:

Can you tell with this test, if you’re a fast metabolizer for certain drugs in particular narcotics?

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes. There is a whole CYPP section, but each CYP sort of has its certain substances that it is known for. Off the top of my head, I wouldn’t know that, there’s some. The caffeine gene and well, there’s actually a couple of them and certain estrogen genes and stuff, but I don’t have them all committed to memory. So that would take a little bit of research or if you know which CYP might be associated with that, then you definitely can just kind of go and scroll right to that CYP. I don’t know if that answers the question.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

If someone went gray at 17, would that be a catalase issue? And is there a way to support that pathway to re-pigment the hair?

Jaclyn Downs:

I would say to support hydrogen peroxide, a catalase issue is a hydrogen peroxide issue because catalase and glutathione neutralize the H202 into H2O and 02.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

You can take a look at your hydrogen peroxide genetic predispositions as well as your catalase and glutathione predispositions.

Michael Roesslein:

That makes sense.

Jaclyn Downs:

Or try Zach Bush’s nitric oxide exercises. They’re really easy and only four minutes long. I don’t know that that’s going to move the needle right away, but…

Michael Roesslein:

I had a over 200-page DNA and they only went over a few things. I ask other doctors to look at it and think, they think it’s not important, but can only make me a little better. How do I get them to use this info? Or at least get more explained to me?

That’s what we’re trying to offer here for people is an opportunity to get relevant info out of it. Odds are your doctors don’t know anything about it, unfortunately.

Jaclyn Downs:

So they’re just kind of brushing it off.

Michael Roesslein:

Which they do with things they don’t understand or know about which everybody does with things they don’t know or understand.

Jaclyn Downs:

But that’s also why I created an affiliate program for practitioners so that they don’t have to not know.

Michael Roesslein:

They don’t have to learn it and don’t have to become a professional at it to utilize it in some way.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes.

Michael Roesslein:

Can you use, other than 23andMe companies uploads? Nutrition Genome or any others?

Jaclyn Downs:

I think it’s compatible with… You can send me an email and I can find out from the software company. I don’t know how limited it is. I don’t know what SNPs or how many SNPs are on their chips, but I think Ancestry is about as revealing as a version five, which is pretty frustrating.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Will there ever be an audiobook available?

Jaclyn Downs:

I hope. I’m not sure…

Michael Roesslein:

Have they proposed that to you?

Jaclyn Downs:

I had mentioned something, so I know it’s digital and it’s hard and I would love to do my own audiobook, but because it is an academic publisher, Ratledge, I don’t know if they do audiobooks. I kind of want to circle back around and revisit that with them because I know a lot of people are reading books that way these days. Plus it’s kind of like my dream to do voiceovers.

Michael Roesslein:

Oh, perfect. Double win. Yeah.

DNA Health or My Heritage, do those work?

That probably falls under the same category as the ones that don’t offer very much information.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, I don’t know. I’m not sure.

You can send me an email and I can ask the company if it is, but again, it’s probably going to be really limited and it might be a waste of money because it might not give a whole lot of information. It might only show one SNP out of however many that the other chip includes.

Michael Roesslein:

Two more.

Jaclyn, keeping in mind that everyone is different and unique, generally speaking, how would your interpretation report/discussion differ if your primary concern is fertility but also have a complex medical history?

I think that she’s asking where is the focus on that pyramid, maybe, or in the reports when the concern is fertility, and I would guess it’s near the bottom of the pyramid.

Jaclyn Downs:

Most likely. There could be some hormonal estrogen receptor issues or something like that. In your summary that I type up, I will sort of curtail it to, and so this is how SOD variants can affect egg health, that kind of stuff. Knowing that that is your primary concern, I will curtail the report to things that would be relevant to your situation.

Michael Roesslein:

I did DNA Company and had my full genome done by Systemic Formulas, but Systemic Formulas used an outside company and that SNPs were largely incorrect. They’re now redoing their process in-house. Now, once that is available, would I be able to use that?

Probably not.

Jaclyn Downs:

I would have to ask, but I’m guessing probably not.

Michael Roesslein:

Before I understood a lot about this. I didn’t really understand the differences between the tests and the companies and the reports and the things. Then once I did gain an understanding of it, there’s very few that remotely compare to this reporting. There’s a couple I know of that are pretty good.

I’ve been around since McEvoy first made his at Metabolic Healing. 10 years ago it was the craziest thing that I’d ever seen. I don’t want to say he lost interest in it, but he hasn’t continued to add to it. Like Bob’s has, it’s just multiplied and multiplied and multiplied and multiplied.

At one point Mike even told me, why would I keep doing that if he’s doing it?

Jaclyn Downs:

And he’s a machine.

Michael Roesslein:

…because it’s an immense amount of information, because I commented earlier on the impressiveness of the coding, but they need to be given the things to code. They need to be given the information to make the logic, to make it make sense. Somebody has to be doing all the research on all the SNPs to get all the information to go into the thing. He was doing that all himself because he’s a genius lunatic.

Jaclyn Downs:

Well, he has the Nutrigenetic Research Institute. That’s what I’m part of…

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. He has backing of that.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Bob has that.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes.

Michael Roesslein:

Mike doesn’t have that. So what I was talking about is McEvoy was doing it all himself because he’s a super genius.

Jaclyn Downs:

He is.

Michael Roesslein:

And then he saw that going on and he’s like, “I don’t need to do this”. It’s really distanced itself is what I’m getting at. I haven’t seen anything that compares to it.

There’s all these, can we plug this and can we plug this in? It’s using the raw data. It’s not like you can give a report that you got from somebody to them and they can turn it into this. That’s not how that works. It uses the raw data and the depth of the raw data that’s in their testing far exceeds the raw data that you can get from 23andMe and from these other things, especially if you’re ordering them now because it got reduced.

There really is a massive gap, to me, between this reporting system and these tests and much of the DNA.

I go on 23andMe and they’re like, “your genetics will tell you what flavor of ice cream you like”. And I’m like, “God dammit, I don’t care”.

Jaclyn Downs:

That’s why I like functional.

Michael Roesslein:

Stop giving me stupid that I don’t care about.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes.

Michael Roesslein:

Like, “is your hair curly”? Yeah, but I already knew that.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah. [inaudible 00:17:].

Michael Roesslein:

I don’t need your test to tell me that. I don’t need your test to tell me that My hair is curly. I have a mirror. I just found a lot of it to almost be insulting.

Jaclyn Downs:

That’s why I say it’s functional genomics, because it’s genes you can actually do something about. It’s not a mutation that you can’t do anything about and you just have this condition. These are the functional genomics that you can help to compensate and support and navigate.

Michael Roesslein:

Hold on. Bravo, you just approached Laura Adler level of question speed answering, which she kind of set the bar.

Jaclyn Downs:

She’s a machine too.

Michael Roesslein:

Weren’t you on that Q and A? The one we did right after the masterclass and you watched part of that?

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, she’s great.

Michael Roesslein:

Great. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We estimated that she answered over 300 questions during the program she did with us the six weeks.

Jaclyn Downs:

And she knew an answer for every single one.

Michael Roesslein:

We figured it was like I couldn’t even finish reading the question and she was answering it and I was like, “I’m going to just get out of the way. Laura, here’s the Q and A box”. Yeah, she’s a machine. But that was fantastic and tons of love in the chat from people that found this valuable. If you haven’t yet, show Jaclyn a little love.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, I haven’t even looked at it because I didn’t want to be distracted

Michael Roesslein:

Just scroll up a little bit, but it was super informative.

This is really some game changing stuff for people who are stuck or confused or they tried this protocol and they felt like hell and everybody else feels great, or you’re a practitioner and you really want to bring some next level value to your clients and patients and what you’re offering.

You don’t have to become an expert. You can link up with Jaclyn and get a link and people can order testing through you and you can utilize it in your practice.

I’ve found it to be super valuable. I think that I’m taking vitamin A and copper and the catalase and SOD enzymes and I am not taking vitamin C around when I eat protein. I learned certain things that changed the way that I was approaching what I was doing. And I’ve unsuccessfully tried to lower my iron in the past and I’ve tried lots of crazy shit, for those who have been around. I don’t know if you were around when I had the leeches.

Jaclyn Downs:

I was just going to say that.

Michael Roesslein:

For people who don’t know, I have a huge phobia of syringes and blood draws and needles, and the most effective way to lower your ferritin is through phlebotomy. I did that one time and it was the worst day of my life, and that was after many hypnotherapy sessions. And yes, I’ve tried that. I’ve tried every kind of thing you can try. I don’t like it and I’m never going to like it.

I’m convinced that I have a medical trauma at birth. I don’t know that because I’m adopted and I don’t know anything about my birth, but I’m convinced after doing lots of trauma work, now that I have an early life medical trauma of some kind and that doesn’t go away. It’s like I’m just scared of it, so I can’t do the thing. That’s the thing that everyone’s like, “just donate blood every few months”. Not going to happen.

I’d really like to figure out a way to lower this and now we’re trying all this new stuff and we’ll see how it goes. And I’m curious to see, because I’m working on the metabolism of the iron, not necessarily the iron itself, which can change the whole situation.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah.

I talk about that in the iron chapter in my book because a lot of people think that anemia is the only problem. Most people don’t know about hemochromatosis unless they know somebody that has it or it’s in their family.

Michael Roesslein:

I had no idea.

Jaclyn Downs:

So a lot of people think, “well no, I deal with low iron”. Because more people do, and “oh, my doctor prescribed iron pills” or “told me to take iron supplements”. But if you eat meat and you don’t have a bleeding disorder, the issue isn’t an iron acquisition issue, it’s an iron utilization issue. I talk all about that in my book.

Michael Roesslein:

If you’re eating meat and you’re anemic, there’s a problem with iron metabolism and absorption. It’s not a problem of taking in more iron. So your iron pills, they’re just going to make you not poop.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yep.

Michael Roesslein:

So that’s pretty much [crosstalk 01:30:46]

Jaclyn Downs:

Well, actually they’re going to fuel the Fenton reaction and create a lot more inflammation oxygen stress.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

I’ve learned a lot from this reporting and that’s shifted the way that I’m doing it.

I mentioned a bunch of supplements there, but I’m taking copper, vitamin A, a B complex, all of those things are extremely cheap, and I learned that copper pills are blue, which is a fun fact.

Jaclyn Downs:

Oh yeah.

Also, are you taking that in conjunction with zinc though? It should be roughly 10 to one.

Michael Roesslein:

I have zinc in a multi that I take, and there’s zinc in the mega quinone.

Jaclyn Downs:

Okay.

I’ll have to check your genes again regarding your, actually like your zinc transport and everything too. You can always test that with HTMA and blood.

Michael Roesslein:

Too much zinc will throw my copper even further out of whack.

Jaclyn Downs:

Right.

Michael Roesslein:

The copper’s only two micrograms or two whatever. I think so. It’s just a tiny little blue pill, but I never knew copper was blue and then I remembered when copper oxidizes, it turns blue.

Jaclyn Downs:

That’s fun.

Michael Roesslein:

It’s not the orange color.

I don’t eat vitamin C around protein. Vitamin C with protein will increase the iron absorption from the protein. So I don’t drink orange juice with a steak, but there’s a lot more than that. I actually don’t usually take vitamin C.

There’s a couple more questions, but I have to go because it is 2:30 in the morning and most of them are answered already or answered. Can check out the recording.

Name of your book again, Jaclyn, for Golly.

Jaclyn Downs:

Enhancing Fertility Through Functional Medicine, Using Nutrigenomics To Sell The Unexplained Infertility.

Michael Roesslein:

Send me the best link and then I’ll put it in the email with this.

Jaclyn Downs:

Sure, yeah, it’s on my website on two pages.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Jaclyn Downs:

I will send it to you again.

I do ask if you are going to buy it, it’s the same price as Amazon, but I signed up for an affiliate because I only get 10% of the book sales, and so with an affiliate I get a little bit more. So it would just help support my family if you order it through my website, but I’ll send that to you.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, send it to me. I’ll include it in the email with the recording of this and everything on Friday.

Thank you everyone. You guys asked, as always…

Jaclyn Downs:

Thank you.

Michael Roesslein:

…great questions. Our audience always asks killer questions. Thank you for all the questions. Thanks for sticking around. There was no drop off in people in the room until recently when we were starting to wrap up. So everybody stuck it out for almost an hour and a half with some pretty serious genetic talk.

Jaclyn Downs:

Thank you. How many participants were there? I didn’t even want to look because I didn’t want to get nervous and bumbling.

Michael Roesslein:

I think total live participants, there was a little over a hundred.

Jaclyn Downs:

Wow, okay. I saw it when it was at 50 something.

Michael Roesslein:

We had 500 and something. It’s usually about 20% live attendance on webinars, so it was right around that.

Jaclyn Downs:

Great.

Michael Roesslein:

And then…

Jaclyn Downs:

Thanks everybody.

Michael Roesslein:

…we usually have around twice that many watch the recordings.

Thanks to everyone. It was awesome. Thank you everybody.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, thank you. Thanks to everybody.

Michael Roesslein:

I am going to go to bed.

Yes. They asked for the recording. They all email, everybody emails when they get the email and say, “I can’t come is there a recording”? There’s been a recording of every webinar we’ve ever done. This is a preemptive, yes, there will be a recording for any webinar we ever do in the future, but it’s more fun to be here live because then you’re hanging out with everybody getting your questions answered live and everything else.

Thank you, Jaclyn, I know that you had a lot going on this week too, so I appreciate you making this happen. I hope you got some coverage with your kiddos.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yes.

Michael Roesslein:

Cool.

Jaclyn Downs:

Thank you.

Michael Roesslein:

We’ll be in touch soon. Thank you.

Jaclyn Downs:

Yeah, good night. Thank you.

Michael Roesslein:

Good night.

PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [01:34:51]