Mike Roesslein:

Okay. Yeah. We’ll send it out to everybody tomorrow morning. I think they changed that as well. So, let’s get going. Yeah. They changed the default setting on that as well. So, Zoom is always trying to keep us on our toes. All right. So, Steve Wright, founder of Healthy Gut, and before that SCD Lifestyle and the place where I first started learning about digestion and gut health and things that led me to digestive enzymes and pretty much the whole road of digestive health. We’re going to be talking specifically digestive enzymes today and related to HoloZyme, which is the product that you have developed. But first we’re going to talk digestive enzymes as a whole. You’re a little choppy. I’m going to take off my HD to help with bandwidth. Okay, cool.

               So, let’s just talk enzymes for a second before we even get into digestive enzymes or HoloZyme or anything like that. And what is an enzyme? What do they do?

Steve Wright:

The basic biology level, enzymes are catalysts. They speed up reactions throughout nature, whether that’s composting of a tree in the forest or the breaking down of our food inside of our digestive tract. And they are technically kind of a protein, but they’re actually a weird molecule of a enzyme and then a cofactor and together they sort of turn on and basically in a way eat stuff or speed up the breakdown of stuff.

Mike Roesslein:

And that cofactor, those are minerals generally?

Steve Wright:

Yeah. Yeah. Those are minerals.

Mike Roesslein:

Okay.

Steve Wright:

And they are normal for all animals. So, the enzymes we make inside of our pancreas, inside of our stomach for pepsin, if you’ve heard of pepsin, that’s the protein degrading enzyme in the stomach. They already are built with that package all together. But the ones out in nature are not. And when we build them for supplementation and we make them derive from mold, which I’m sure we’ll go into here because that word throws fear in the heart of everyone. If you’re consuming a vegan or vegetarian brand of enzyme, it is derived from mold. But the cool thing is it’s not of mold, it’s the byproduct of mold and mold actually that’s how trees are digested. And so those enzymes need that mineral.

               And so, that was like a massive breakthrough because when I was a clinician and I saw like a lot of really, really messed up digestive cases when people only would come see me after they’ve seen like five other functional medicine providers, it was so challenging to recommend brands like Digest Gold or Thorne, Dipan-9, like really, really high quality, the most expensive products on the market and only see like 30% of people get response to them, actually be able to digest their food have improvements. And so, what I set out to do was just solve that problem because I don’t know, I’m like a… You know me. I’m like a little dog with a bone. I can’t stop digging, man. I’m like that sand crab dog that just has to go down the rabbit hole trying to figure out why is that? And so, that’s where I learned about the actual biology of enzymes, which I feel like the industry has kind of forgotten.

Mike Roesslein:

That’s interesting. So the mold, as we know mold breaks stuff down and eats things and without mold, nothing would ever decay or digest or be gone, it would just be dead things and we’d be buried in dead things. And so, mold breaks things down using enzymes. And so they make enzymes and the enzymes break down the stuff. But when we use them to make the enzymes in the body, when we take the enzymes into the body, it needs activation. It needs these cofactors, these minerals. And the mold does not make them with the minerals. We make them with the minerals, but if we are deficient in some way or don’t have adequate enzymes, then when we take them, need the minerals with it. Is that kind of what you figured out?

Steve Wright:

Yeah. It’s even more basic than that. The minerals exist out in nature as well, and they exist in your food and so [crosstalk 00:09:11].

Mike Roesslein:

And they are in the soil, right?

Steve Wright:

Right. And in the soil. So, it’s by happenchance, which would explain a 30% success rate, right? Why are we failing with 70% and succeeding with 30%? Because there’s some element of chance. And so if you eat the right combo of food with your enzymes you’re taking that are vegetarian based, you win.

Mike Roesslein:

Gotcha.

Steve Wright:

And if you don’t, you might not win.

Mike Roesslein:

Gotcha. If the food has the minerals or yeah, that makes sense. So, digestive enzymes, we produce them. We produce different ones too, not the pepsin is the one in the stomach, that digest protein. So, there’s different minerals that digest different foods, right? There’s lipase for fats. And what are some of the major ones for the big food groups?

Steve Wright:

So, there’s essentially like three layers. We could talk about how there’s amylase, which is a carbohydrate digesting enzyme that’s actually starts in your mouth-

Mike Roesslein:

Mouth, right?

Steve Wright:

… and kind of start working. Yeah. But your pancreatic enzymes are the strongest ones and that’s where the majority of your amylase is made. And so you need amylase to break down complex carbohydrates, regular carbohydrates. It’s like the working grunt if you will, for carbohydrates. Lipase is the mastermind for breaking down fats. And that again is a pancreatic enzyme. And then proteases are protein degrading molecules. There are several of them. Pepsin is a specific one that’s released in the stomach. The majority of the rest of the ones in the body come out of the pancreas, which they’re dumped into the small intestine right at the top where the stomach and the small intestine kind of come together.

               So, those are your top sort of most important ones. The next layer down is also very important. It’s the brush border enzymes. And there’s this villi map or this entire inside of your small intestine that have these villi, these villi have special cells that secrete brush border enzymes. And many of these are very specialized carbohydrate digesting enzymes, including for instance, lactase. People want to know why they have lactose intolerant. There’s a special enzyme called lactase that breaks down… After amylase has cut this really complex molecule down to like a few chains, then lactase comes and splits it again. Without that last split, you have lactose intolerance. It’s really that simple when it comes to understanding it from a biochemistry perspective. But there are several others like sucrase, which breaks down sucrose into glucose and fructose. So, all carbohydrates need to be either broken down into monosaccharides, which means one molecule of sugar, or they’re a type of fiber and they ended up traveling all the way through and getting fermented by something. Hopefully, it’s in your microbiome not in a SIBO or Candida or some sort of situation like that.

               And so, that’s where enzymes, I think are extremely important for longevity, for defensiveness against any sort of SIBO, Candida overgrowth of any type because [crosstalk 00:12:32].

Mike Roesslein:

Those [crosstalk 00:12:33] like that prebroken down carbohydrate, right? So that they can chow on that?

Steve Wright:

No, they love it when it’s not broken down because if those [crosstalk 00:12:42] broken down-

Mike Roesslein:

Prebroken down, I meant. Like it’s before broken down. Like it’s unbroken down.

Steve Wright:

Yeah.

Mike Roesslein:

Like it comes in in the state that it’s in. So, there’s no enzymes to break it down and it gets to them and its whole say this big form. They’re like, “Yes, more of that. Let’s eat that.” And then they break it down and then they make the gas, they make the bloating, they make the pain, they make the distension, they make the symptoms. Right? Because it’s kind of there-

Steve Wright:

100%.

Mike Roesslein:

… the after-effects of them chowing down on your food.

Steve Wright:

Yep, 100%.

Mike Roesslein:

If we have an accurate or adequate level of enzyme production and enzymes present, break down the carbohydrates before they get to the bugs, they don’t chow down on them.

Steve Wright:

Yeah, because you actually absorb them across your gut wall. You actually get the nutrients into your body-

Mike Roesslein:

It needs to be done [crosstalk 00:13:30].

Steve Wright:

… so with gut enzymes, you’re not… Right. It’s got to get down to the right molecule size, otherwise your body can’t absorb it. And if your body can’t absorb it, it just keeps bouncing along the digestive tract until a bug is like, “Oh, I’ll take that. That looks like dinner.” And so, without enzymes or improper enzyme released due to inflammation in the GI tract due to low stomach acid, due to stress, you’re eating on the go while… Like you and I are trying to make companies to help people, all of that inhibits your enzyme secretion and your enzyme production. And then you’re just increasing the chances that these bugs are getting all your organic veggies rather than you.

Mike Roesslein:

Gotcha. Let’s go back to that. You mentioned insufficient production. So, I’m sure a question floating through people’s head who might be watching this is like, “Cool. My body makes enzymes. It makes it with the minerals like it’s supposed to, why would I take them as a supplement? Why would I need to take them?” And I’ve heard some when we talk systemic enzymes with people saying like the production just naturally decreases with age over time, but it sounds like you mentioned a couple of other factors there that are very common parts of modern life and society. So, what kind of derails this enzyme production?

Steve Wright:

Well, yeah. If you’re over 50, if you’re super banged up and you’ve gone through a lot of your health reserves, your potentiality to make enzymes is degrading over time just like your ovaries and your testes go down. It’s very similar to aging for the pancreas. But let’s say you’re a little younger and you’re having trouble. Well, number one is you have to have the right level of stomach acid and the right pH in the body. So, enzymes are a catalyst, right? They’re not a protein, they’re not a fat, they’re not a carbohydrate. They’re a reaction just waiting to happen. And we don’t want them always turned on and happening, right? Otherwise, your pancreas might get eaten up by it, right? They have to have a certain environment that turns them on. And that is a pH gradient. And if people don’t understand the pH system, I understand. I don’t know who invented it, but I think it’s a silly concept to try to impress upon people. But it goes from zero to 14.

               Seven is base. Anything under seven is acid, and each number on the scale is a log. It’s a big jump. And so, your pancreatic enzymes work-

Mike Roesslein:

Exponential it’s [crosstalk 00:16:04] scale, right? Kind of?

Steve Wright:

… Exactly.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah.

Steve Wright:

Yep. And so your pancreatic enzymes work between seven and nine. Outside of that window, they have like 10% efficiency. It’s a bell curve and it’s based around seven and nine. And so, each class of enzyme works in a certain pH range because we’re trying to get it to the right spot in the body without turning it on. And then [crosstalk 00:16:28] to work.

Mike Roesslein:

And that’s the way it does that. That’s the way nature has designed it so that it doesn’t turn on where it’s not supposed to. And the way it gauges, this is where I’m supposed to be, time to turn on and do my thing is based on the pH of the environment.

Steve Wright:

Exactly.

Mike Roesslein:

Okay. So, that environment pH is thrown off, then the enzyme never turns on and just floats through?

Steve Wright:

Exactly. Or it’s on by like 10%, like you have 10% efficiency, which is going to get you nowhere. So, it does fall off like standard deviations do. So, you’ll get like 20% efficiency just outside of that band. But yeah, in general, what to take away from this is that there is a specific window in which the small intestine should be environmentally speaking for these enzymes to work inside your body. So, you could have a production issue. You could have a transportation issue. If you’re not getting your enzymes into the small intestine due to a defect in your body, maybe you’re not making enough bicarbonate. Then you don’t raise the pH high enough for that enzyme to turn on. Maybe your stomach acid was too high or too low in the beginning. Normally it’s too high.

               Let’s say your stomach acid is a little high, it’s like a three or a four when it dumps in and then your bicarbonate dumps in. Now you could be up at like 11. And if you’re at 11, the pancreatic enzymes aren’t going to work. And so, this is where the biochemistry gets really weird and it gets funky and enzymes are complicated, right? It’s so much simpler to say like, “You need a healthy microbiome, eat fiber.” Like that’s so much-

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah, we’re definitely simplifying it a little because we don’t need to go into crazy biochemistry, but I don’t think it needs to go into crazy biochemistry for it to be understood. So, the things that throw this pH off in the biochemistry off are like stress.

Steve Wright:

Yeah.

Mike Roesslein:

Stress shuts down the digestive system, inflammation.

Steve Wright:

Yeah. Stress, inflammation, infections. Yeah. Anything that’s going to take you out of parasympathetic is going to destroy your digestion. Think about it, grandma is usually right. The reason why they say don’t go swimming after you eat is because you need to be in parasympathetic mode to actually build stomach acid and build enzymes and get them there and for them to happen. So, being rushed while eating is one of the biggest issues here.

Mike Roesslein:

It’s kind of funny how all of those things that grandma said. Now we have all this modern cutting edge science to tell us how they work, also about not doing crazy things right after you eat. And it wasn’t about like, oh, the swimming member. If you go in a pool after you eat, you’re totally going to die. So, it was just give your body a chance to actually digest properly. Because if you eat the food and then get up and go… I noticed I have an infrared sauna and you don’t think of… People think of a sauna as being relaxing and it is relaxing and it’s a stress on the body. And so, I’ve noticed if I eat and go in the sauna right away, my digestion is terrible. And I get bloated and feel weird. And I’m like, “Wait, but I’m chilling in the sauna.” But to the body, that hot is a stress. So then it shuts down the digestion and that would include the pH and the enzymes and throwing everything off.

               And so, when you have digestive symptoms, oftentimes we don’t know like what the behind the scenes is of the symptoms and it can be that the pH is off, the enzyme production is off that’s throwing off… The pH is throwing off the activation of the enzymes, all of those kinds of things. Somebody asked in the chat there, “What role does bile production play on enzymes since it alters pH?” Do you have anything to throw in on that?

Steve Wright:

We don’t know a ton, but where everything is dumping into the small intestine, the bile is dumping in as well. Bile is super important for digestion, especially for fat digestion. I think it also plays a role in sort of cleansing the small intestine. I don’t know if that gets talked about enough, but if you-

Mike Roesslein:

Getting the bugs out.

Steve Wright:

… don’t have a gallbladder… Right. It’s part of the cleanup process, as well as the absorption process for fats. If you don’t have a gallbladder, that suggests that you had inflammation in the GI area already, and you’re going to struggle probably with fat digestion the rest of your life. And so that’s where taking bile support and enzymes potentially for the rest of your life is a great way to be super healthy, not have malabsorption, not miss out on nutrients that you would normally get if you had the proper bile system. But I do want to mention, Michael that we’re only talking about level one enzymes, which is pancreatic enzymes.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah.

Steve Wright:

The brush border, you can have jacked up brush border enzymes if you have… Celiac is the best example, the diagnosis for-

Mike Roesslein:

Brush border being the fingers in the intestines.

Steve Wright:

Yeah, the little Villi.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Wright:

Yep. So, and celiac, the actual diagnosis is the villi are like this and you have some genes that say you can’t digest gluten. If your villi are blunted, they can’t do their job. Part of their job is to release enzymes. So, if you have any sort of infections, if you actually have celiac, if you have inflammation in the small intestine, your brush border is going to be weak at best. Maybe non-existent. So, all the brush border enzymes, which I believe is a big part of this FODMAP craze that we’re having right now. The whole group of FODMAPs are essentially carbohydrate problems. Well, let’s assume the pancreas is working. Let’s assume all that stuff’s going on. But if you lose your brush border due to inflammation and infections, and you lose the microbiome level of enzymes, you’re going to struggle with FODMAPs all day.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah.

Steve Wright:

And so, that’s the last thing that we haven’t talked about is microbiome. So the bugs in our bodies actually make enzymes to help them access the food. So a common one is cellulase. Cellulase is an every enzyme out there that is a vegetarian based enzyme. Just like it sounds, it breaks down the cell wall, the complex carbohydrate around the cell wall. And it comes from the bugs in our gut, or we have to eat it from a supplement. So, if your microbiome is dysbiotic, if it’s been assaulted like mine has by way too many antibiotics from like a dermatologist who had no idea what they were doing, until you get the full species back, until you get a very diverse microbiome, if it’s even possible without like a fecal microbial transplant, you might never get that certain class of enzyme back that was normally made by your microbiome. And other ones include things like phytase, that’s important for degrading phytic acid and lots of little-

Mike Roesslein:

Nuts and seeds and yeah.

Steve Wright:

… [crosstalk 00:23:23] and nuts. Yeah. So, people assume nuts are healthy. Well, they are if you can actually break them down. If you don’t have the class of bugs that makes phytase, nuts might not be a good thing for you. Some people struggle with polyphenols and [inaudible 00:23:41] is one made by the microbiome that helps break down a polyphenol. And people react to grapes and wines and things like that. And they blame alcohol, but it’s fine not the alcohol. It could be something else. It could be the yeast reaction, or it could be that you have a salicylate or polyphenol reaction due to a microbiome disruption. And so, when we look at what can go wrong with enzymes, a lot can go wrong. You can bring it back, but you’re going to have to focus on not being stressed. You can’t have any small intestine damage or infections, and you’re going to have to do stool testing to show that your microbiome is really diverse.

Mike Roesslein:

So, our modern life isn’t ideal for optimal enzyme production and enzyme activation. And I heard you name a bunch of different categories of food that I know a lot of people in our audience will say like, “I do find this up with this food. I do find this up with this food. I do find this up with these kinds of foods.” And some of that sometimes can be actual reactions to foods of like IgG reactions or other types of body immune reactions. If it causes symptoms that you feel are unrelated to digestion, for example. Like I eat this thing and then my shoulders are sore or I get headaches or something like that, maybe more of an immune reaction. Whereas if I eat that food and my belly feels like a beach ball, or I get diarrhea, or I get constipated or something like that, that could very likely be a situation with the specific enzyme class or category or species. I don’t know the right word that relates to that food, to that type of food, to that type of fiber or that type of carbohydrate or that type of protein.

               And that’s why is because it’s just simply not getting broken down. And when things don’t get broken down in the belly, your belly doesn’t feel good. Is that-

Steve Wright:

Yeah. That’s a great summary, man.

Mike Roesslein:

Okay. The beach ball. Because honestly, when I started to test out your enzymes, the way I did it is I ate a whole bunch of popcorn. And then I took three of them because popcorn is my food. Like popcorn is my thing that nothing else really phases me, but if I eat a giant thing of… Not even giant, but if I eat like enough popcorn, I feel like hell for many hours usually into the next morning in my belly and that’s how I tested it out. So, I don’t know if you’ve got a popcornase enzyme in there, but that’s how I tested it out. So, you’ve been dealing with gut issues and I always forget that people don’t know your story possibly, but you’ve been dealing with digestion and gut issues pretty much your whole life. And that’s when you got into SCD diet, which is specific carbohydrate which probably is another way to manage like, “Oh, I can’t eat these carbohydrates, so I just don’t eat those ones. I’ll eat these ones.” And you went down that road of the SCD diet and teaching people to manage their symptoms with diet.

               And you’ve probably tried more digestive products than any person that I know over the course of the years because you described yourself as a dog with a bone. Like when Steve gets into something, he’s into it. So, you’ve been into digestion for a really long time. And when you told me you were starting to make your own line of digestive products, my first answer in my head was like, “There’s so many enzymes out there already, way to try to jump into a market where there’s a zillion products, dude.” And then you’re like, “Yeah, but they suck and they don’t work, and here’s why.” And I’ve used a lot of them when I worked with clients one-on-one and with my wife who has a pretty finicky digestion, which has changed pretty significantly since we started with yours by the way.

               Those Digest Gold. That’s what I went to every time. Digest Gold from Enzymedica for a little tiny bottle was like $90. And I was like, “Well, whatever. It really…” And it really helped about half the people that took it. But when you explained to me about the activation cofactors and the way that the enzymes work and the pH and all this, it really made sense. And I was stunned why nobody had done it before, but I’ve started to get less surprised at that. Like those types of things surprise me less and less as I go. So, I guess it was just you getting fed up with not feeling good when you were eating or not being able to eat certain foods. What really drove to the creation of this?

Steve Wright:

Because I don’t want to be someone who has to take support products and I want to be able to eat what I want to eat. And so, yeah, you’re right. The FODMAP diet, the specific carbohydrate diet, the GAPs diet. All these diets are specific ways to manage your carbohydrate load and avoid things that trigger you. But if you look at the long-term research of all of these-

Mike Roesslein:

Right.

Steve Wright:

… it’s bad. It’s super bad. You destroy your butyrate production. You’re making microbiome less diverse, like over the long haul, low-fiber diets and low digest or fermentability diets, which makes [crosstalk 00:28:59].

Mike Roesslein:

Negatively impact microbiome, right?

Steve Wright:

Exactly. Exactly.

Mike Roesslein:

… Across the board. Whenever we’ve done webinars with Kiran and people ask like, “I can only eat six foods.” And he’s like, “Well, you got to find a way to eat more foods because if you only eat six foods, you’re never going to not be able to eat. You’re always going to be only able to eat six foods or less.” And then we see so many people that come into our system here that then are eating less foods and less foods and less foods and less foods as it goes on. And the microbiome needs the diversity. So, it’s like a temporary fix to get away from the symptoms, but then you’re painting yourself into a corner that you can’t really get out of and it probably perpetuates other things because as you mentioned, the microbiome, the bugs make enzymes, but they also make tons of other stuff. And they also help regulate your immune system and modulate the immune system and do all these other things.

               And if you’re not feeding them, they go away. So-

Steve Wright:

A hundred percent.

Mike Roesslein:

… these diets, like people will come in and they’re like, “Which diet do you recommend? Do you recommend GAPs? Or do you recommend SCD?” And GAPs is even more restrictive than SCD. So, it’s like GAPs, SCD. There’s little FODMAPs. And we did a FODMAPs webinar a couple months ago and went through… I pulled up four different FODMAP lists off the internet and all four of them were different. Like which foods should you avoid on FODMAPs? Each one was 40 foods long, but there was ones that were not on. And then there’s conflicting and you’ll go mad. And so that’s kind of the point you reached, right? Like you were just like, “Dude, I…”

Steve Wright:

Yeah. I’m both… There’s several things about me. One is I have a hard time leaving a stone unturned, especially when I feel like it’s worth solving the problem. And I’m just a crazy person for that. Number two, I’m a hedonist. You know me. You know what my test was. Is my test is a bag of tortilla chips and a couple of glasses of wine because that is guaranteed to mess my digestion up. But man, do I love some red wine and some tortilla chips and a little salsa, but [crosstalk 00:31:01].

Mike Roesslein:

Okay. I’m bitting through a salsa, I’m picturing you dunking tortilla chips and red wine. And I’m like, “Dude, don’t do it.” But-

Steve Wright:

No. No. No. So, I would run every… I mean I bought 30-plus brands. I built my own capsules. Once I started in the research, I realized that enzymes are used in Princeton’s cancer therapy at extreme doses, 130, 160 capsules a day. And suddenly my mind was blown. I was like, “Oh, we’re over here in the digestive world and we don’t know anything about what’s happening in the cancer world. And we’re probably way underdosing these things.” So then I started amping up the doses, eight capsules, 10 capsules, 12 capsules of other people’s products, trying to figure out if I could eat chips and drink wine. And the answer was typically no. I punished myself for that and I had a little fun.

               HoloZymes and the formula, the guy, the PhD behind the patent was the first time that I was able to pull that off. Of course, then I had to try to drink a whole bottle of wine and eat a whole bag of chips and there is a limit to them. But that’s part of who I am, is number one, I have to solve problems, I feel weird if I don’t especially when it seems like other people are suffering and struggling with them. Number two, I take recommendations extremely sacred. So, a lot of people call me. There’s influencers all across the world, there’s people that you’ve interviewed all the time that texts me when all the regular stuff doesn’t work because they know that I’m buying stuff from Russia, Asia, all over [crosstalk 00:32:37].

Mike Roesslein:

[inaudible 00:32:37] done a webinar. I think we called it like Steve’s… I don’t remember what it was, but it was like unorthodox health… Well, renegade… What do you call it? What is it called?

Steve Wright:

Maverick healing.

Mike Roesslein:

Maverick healing. Yeah. We did a whole webinar for like an hour and a half on things from Russia and from China and from all over the place. And I can vouch for that. Anybody out there listening, he’s not exaggerating. Steve knows where all the things come from.

Steve Wright:

And so [crosstalk 00:33:03].

Mike Roesslein:

You want some black market enzymes, we’ll get you some black market enzymes. No…

Steve Wright:

But when people are asking me and they’re in pain, I know that they’ve gone to great lengths and I don’t want to let them down. I want 80% plus chance that what I say in that moment of intervention is going to help them because I know those moments are frigging sacred, man. Like when you reach that breaking point after you’ve had like 15 diarrhea sessions in a row all night, or your belly is so bloated, you cancel on a date or you miss your soccer pickup or whatever it is, your emotional breakpoint, you’re in the hospital. They got to operate. I don’t know. When you have that opportunity with the individual, I take that moment very seriously.

               And so, I want to build a company and I only want to build products that I know have 80-plus percent chance of in that moment, when I have an opportunity to recommend something, that is probably going to work. And enzymes were a thing where I felt like A, I couldn’t eat what I wanted no matter what I tried and B, it was worth solving for these people. And so that’s where HoloZymes came from. That’s how I ended up finding this PhD with his patent.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah. I know he won’t come on. He’s a little bit of a hermit, which is pretty common with those folks. I’m curious where you found the scientist that helped you develop this product. Actually, that doesn’t surprise me either because if I need to know somebody who knows somebody who knows a guy, you’re probably the guy I would call too. But how did you come across this guy? And then what did that process look like in short, of development?

Steve Wright:

Yeah. I was literally contacting every manufacturer of enzyme products in America. So, I was hounding them. They won’t take my calls I’m a nobody to them. I don’t have a brand yet. I can’t place a big order and I don’t give up. And so after several conversations where they said they had the best. I tried it, it didn’t work. I would just keep asking, “Okay. Who else? Who else do you know?” And just a random, one of those conversations mentioned this guy. I reached out to him and he was very excited because no one kind of believes his work or takes his work seriously, I guess in a way, because it’s a hassle to produce it. It’s a hassle, it costs way more to make products with the right minerals. And you have to reduce the amount on the label. And so, like for instance, HoloZyme if you compare it to other enzymes out there, it looks like it’s not as strong, but that’s not the case at all. It’s so much stronger because it actually works.

               So, there’s so many reasons why people won’t talk this guy. And I just happened to be like, “Cool, man. If you think you can solve it, then let’s try it.” And he told me the same thing, like, “Look, man, we did six studies in humans. I have the data to back it up. I got a patent.” And I was like, “That’s the only thing.” Is I’m a… I don’t know what I am, but I believe in miracles. And I believe every time. Maybe I’m a fool, I don’t know, but I believe every time. And I always verify. So I trust but verify. And this time when I trusted and verified, I wasn’t let down. Normally I am. Like 99% of the time I’m let down.

Mike Roesslein:

I’m kind of with you on that team. I do the same.

Steve Wright:

Yeah.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah. So I know [crosstalk 00:36:17].

Steve Wright:

Trust but verify?

Mike Roesslein:

… Yeah. Yeah. And I trust you and I want to believe it. And I try it and I try so many things and I can relate to that feeling when something actually backs up what it’s supposed to do and what it’s supposed to and then you’re the finder of it. And I’m also somebody who people reach out to quite a bit when they’re kind of at the end of their stick regarding, “I don’t know what to do with this and I don’t know who do I call. What do I…” And I’ve been on both ends of that conversation. So, I also understand the desperation and the position that people are in when they reach out and the… I don’t know, the gift or the curse of always having to help them.

               I don’t know how to turn people away. Like either like it’s-

Steve Wright:

Yeah.

Mike Roesslein:

… We kind of share that same drive too, like, “Oh, that sucks.” I don’t want that person to feel like that. “Here, try this. That didn’t work. Try this. Here, try this thing. I found this over here, try this.” And I think that comes from going so much of it yourself. You’re going through so much of it yourself and being on the other end. Once I was on the other end of those desperate phone calls and texts, I had a new perspective on what it meant when I was receiving them. So, you started to make that. And then [crosstalk 00:37:32].

Steve Wright:

And then we kept improving because like someone… So, he had his formula that he did the six studies on, he based two studies on type two diabetes, two studies on gout, and then two studies on hypercholesterolemia. So high cholesterol.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah.

Steve Wright:

All six studies are pilot trials in humans and all showed positive benefits. The blood glucose levels after eating were down like 16% to 19%. Uric acid levels were down 30% to 50% and pain was significantly reduced. Cholesterol dropped 10% to 15% in all of these people. And so-

Mike Roesslein:

Can you [crosstalk 00:38:13] any of the mechanisms by which enzymes would do any of those three things?

Steve Wright:

It’s theoretics. So, theoretically [crosstalk 00:38:23].

Mike Roesslein:

I’m not questioning the studies at all, I’m just curious, like…

Steve Wright:

Yeah. So, let’s go class by class.

Mike Roesslein:

Sure.

Steve Wright:

So, the dosing was two capsules with meals and two capsules before bed on an empty stomach. So systemic and digestive.

Mike Roesslein:

Okay.

Steve Wright:

So, if we look at the digestive function of blood sugar level after we eat, the enzymes are either when you take it with HoloZymes are either slowing down the absorption of the glucose or facilitating a more efficient transfer of glucose, such that you don’t need as much insulin to regulate your blood sugar levels. Maybe there’s other mechanisms, if there’s two, there’s probably more. With uric acid and protein, I actually had this, I have had high uric acid for years. I’ve been paleo gluten-free since 2009 and I was starting to get left toe pain, like big toe pain. And I was embarrassed. I’m supposed to be a healthy guy trying to teach other people about health. And here I am getting gout at 32. That was like four years ago. I’m a little older now, but I was embarrassed, but I almost couldn’t work out anymore. Like walking hurt.

               I tried everything, like all the tart cherry extracts, all these crazy things, didn’t work. And then enzymes if taken systemically can help break down immune complexes in the blood, they can also help break down protein into amino acids in the GI tract so they’re properly broken down. They’re not some sort of misshapen amino acid. And so, my belief on the uric acid piece is that you’re actually breaking down your protein and you’re actually using it. It’s not floating around in the blood. It’s not getting malabsorbed in the gut, things like that. And the cholesterol piece is way more complicated for me. I’m not actually sure of a mechanism on that other than it might be related to the blood flow, systemic circulation style issues.

               And then that stuff was really cool, but it wasn’t tailored for digestive people. Like someone asked about… Barbara was asking about fiber. Do these enzymes digest fiber? Well, there’s lots of different types of fibers. Somebody who reacts to cruciferous vegetables or legumes or beans probably needs alpha-galactosidase. That wasn’t in the formula. People who struggle with FODMAPs need cellulase. And so I doubled the cellulase in his formula. People who struggle with polyphenols seem to be helped by [inaudible 00:41:05] supplementation. So I added that in our latest version. And so that’s kind of what I’ve been doing is trying to add more and more microbiome enzymes that I know those of us who’ve had way too many antibiotics, way too many head injuries, all these different types of things. We may never get that enzyme production back and so-

Mike Roesslein:

I just want to slow down right there for a second, because it took me about seven years of doing this before I learned that head injuries caused damage to the microbiome. And I just wanted to make sure everybody heard that because I have a whole bunch of concussions because smart, when I was younger and sports, but largely smart. And I’m saying that facetiously, I made a lot of decisions that boys make. So, I never knew that. I never knew that had injuries to tease Kharrazian. I did a presentation with Dr. Kharrazian, where he talked about head injuries affecting the microbiome. And it was significant. I also grew up in a swimming pool with chlorine and pool chemicals, and another thing people don’t think about. But yeah, so you’re adding more in that are the ones that the microbiome would generally make because what we’re finding is that a lot of people’s microbiomes are generally trashed and not creating those enzymes. So, it’s evolved since your first formula?

Steve Wright:

Correct. Yep. So, we’re on version three now just came out May, and it’s getting better reviews than any of the other two, which is really cool.

Mike Roesslein:

Cool. I don’t even know which one I have because I bought a whole bunch of it, like-

Steve Wright:

You have version three. Everything on the market’s version three.

Mike Roesslein:

Okay, cool. I’m going to slow down for a couple of questions. Can you talk a bit more about distinguishing foods that might be reintroduced using digestive enzymes and those that cannot, for example, lectins are the common theme I see. That’s Alison Vickery. She’s a practitioner friend of mine and Alison I’d be happy to connect you directly with Steve. I’m sure that he’d be happy to chat with you too if you’ve got more like practitioner specific questions. For example, lectins are the common theme I see damaging a compromised villi. Can digestive enzymes address or help with lectins?

Steve Wright:

I haven’t personally researched that. And so, since I haven’t like dove in completely, I don’t want to give a false theory here. So, I can’t say one way or the other on that one.

Mike Roesslein:

No worries. If you have difficulty digesting leafy greens. Yeah, leafy greens or fiber or cellulose.

Steve Wright:

Yeah.

Mike Roesslein:

These would be [crosstalk 00:43:35].

Steve Wright:

I’ll say [crosstalk 00:43:36], cellulase. Yeah [inaudible 00:43:42] may even help a little bit there, amylase for sure. And also people forget, like if you’re looking in the toilet and you’re seeing certain types of food, if you’re noticing things around the toilet, think about that food and how you’re eating it. Because if you take a walnut and you’re like, “Oh, I’m eating all these almonds and all these walnuts and look, they’re in the toilet undigested.” We’ll, think about that. If you try to break a walnut with your hands, nobody can do that. Maybe the strongest man in the world can, but… Oh, Michael can, but other than Michael, all the rest of us are screwed on this part, around this walnut.

Mike Roesslein:

I actually grew up with a father who loved the process of eating nuts with the nutcracker. And so we’d have a bowl of them and I would sit there as a kid and like… It doesn’t work.

Steve Wright:

Smash them?

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah. It doesn’t work. No, I would just hurt my hands.

Steve Wright:

Well, the same thing is true with leafy greens. Why do people… Like raw salad is amazing if you can digest it and absorb it. If you can, it’s a toxin.

Mike Roesslein:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And it’s like the number one thing, people have problems with.

Steve Wright:

Totally. It’s actually pretty hard to break down a arugula or spinach or kale. And so these superfoods, they’re not superfoods if you can’t break them down. If you can break them down and absorb them, they’re going to become toxins. And they’re either going to feed a dysbiotic microbiome or cause GI upset. So, that’s where things like, you could try using something like HoloZymes or whatever. If you have the enzyme at home, up the dosage, like if it’s not working, just keep upping the dosage. So that’s the only thing that I feel like is not being talked about is that statistically speaking… My background is basically mathematics and problem solving. And mathematically speaking, 34% of anyone listening to this right now, probably higher due to confirmation bias and selection bias, but you’re on the long tail. And that means that you either need a higher dose or a smaller dose of whatever’s on the back of the HoloZyme label or any digestive enzyme label.

               In general, since selection bias, you’re going to need more. And so, I’ve seen people take four or six capsules and have like… To them it’s a miracle what is what happens. And I’m not saying that it’s just our product. It could be the product you have at home. So, start right now tonight, tomorrow… I don’t know what time you’re listening to this in your world, but double, triple the dose and see if you can tolerate that type of fibrous food or that nut or whatever it is you’re struggling with because there is a possibility that it will work for you.

Mike Roesslein:

Right. Yeah. I never realized that about how you’re saying, like these are toxic foods if they’re not superfoods, I never realized that about salads and greens. My clients would always complain about it. I never really put two and two together because they didn’t live in my house. And then we did so much digestive repair with Mira. And the thing that is the biggest challenge for her period is like a big salad or like you said, raw kale. I wouldn’t even try to give her that. And those are the things that just destroy her gut. And we found with like four, if she takes for HoloZyme, she can eat a salad without any bloating, normally two, any other food. But with like four… Now, we haven’t tried to do it like the Steve Wright method of like, if a little salad works, let’s eat a beach ball-sized salad and see-

Steve Wright:

I don’t recommend that.

Mike Roesslein:

… if we can take 16 HoloZymes and eat two pounds of lettuce, but four have helped with the bowl of salad and that’s been new. And for me, I’ve tried everything with the popcorn because, dude, I love popcorn. Why is it always the thing too, that’s your food that messes you up, that’s the food… Like you love tortilla chips and red wine. Why do I love popcorn so much? Is it because it makes me sick when I eat it, is this a challenge? And I love popcorn. And so now I have popcorn and movie nights, like every couple of weeks I’ll have some popcorn and watch a movie since I got… I was doing it before, but then I would pay for it. And now I can do it without crying about it afterwards and begrudging myself and all of that.

               So, I actually first found out that you had created these enzymes through a couple of practitioner friends of mine who were using them. I think Brie actually was the first one to tell me. And so, you do have practitioners using these in practice, and I’m just curious, what kind of feedback you’ve been getting from them?

Steve Wright:

Yeah. We’re in, I think around 40 offices now and growing. So, if you are a practitioner hit me up, but everybody should just go to the Rebel Health store and get them there. The practitioners are saying, “Essentially, we’ve done what we’re trying to do, which is expand people’s diets.” So, a lot of what I work with are really, really tough cases. I know someone was talking about their mom is having a hard time eating gassy foods or getting gassy after eating like fatty foods or something like that. To me, that’s a really easy case. Like give them some HoloZyme and try it out. Probably two pills, you’re good to go. But I typically attract and work with people who are down to five foods or even five foods causes them upset, but literally they can’t stomach anything else. They have to keep eating, otherwise they’re going to die.

               And so, for these people, we need to expand their diet as fast as possible while minimizing their pain and their symptomology. And so, that’s where we’re getting good feedback from the practitioners is that they are able to scale diets faster. A lot of bloating case studies, just like people who… A common story is, or one story actually, I think it’s someone related to Brie and her practice was that she felt like she was fighting food. Like she might be allergic to all foods and she is a friend of Brie. And so she has access to all Brie’s discounts and everything that Brie knows. And it didn’t matter. She’d tried every other enzyme out there, HoloZyme three per meal was life-changing for her.

               Now she’s not looking like a pregnant lady is what she said, her words, not mine. So, that’s the biggest thing. Also, just finding those food pieces in the stool. A lot of people are pretty stoked that that doesn’t happen anymore. And the cool thing is that a huge part of my community has turned out to be histamine sensitive people, so that a group of people is particularly challenging to work with. They react to many, many, many things that are even healthy to somebody and they’re able to tolerate HoloZymes almost universally. And they’re able to somehow, I don’t know if it’s changing the structure that their muscles are reacting to, but for the histamine intolerance people, it seems to be slowly helping their gut relax to allow more foods.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah. That’s Alison who was asking the question. She’s a practitioner and she said she’s in Australia. I know she’s in Australia, but she said she wants to intro to about stocking in Australia, New Zealand, she’s got an intro to key distributor there that will stock what she wants. So, Alison built her whole business around histamine intolerant people like that was her specialty and she’s good at it. And so she’s got a huge audience of those people. So, I just want to make sure you heard that Alison, and they’re tricky because like you said, oftentimes they’re reacting to healthy things. And then the thing that’s the solution for most people with people with histamine intolerance, they can’t take the thing that’s the solution. And so it’s like maddening. We have a few of them in our Rebel Health Tribe group there. Somebody is like, “I tried this and it was awesome and I felt great.”

               And then they take one of those and it blasts them into hives and awkward sorts of stuff. So, that’s good to hear as well. And yeah, it was Brie I think is one who was telling me about one of her patients too that was down to seven foods. And that’s the thing is like… And the way I’ve talked to Kiran about this too, about how whatever you can do to get them more foods into the diet will then give your body more fuel, more nutrients, more and more things to rebuild and address the reason that you can’t eat the foods in the first place with the microbiome, with the better nutrition, with the nutrient levels and all of that.

               And so, to someone who would say, like, “Isn’t taking an enzyme to eat foods that make you not feel good, like symptom management?” And it’s like, “Yes, and being able to eat those foods gets more stuff into your gut, which is going to help you able to eat more foods.” And it should. Like if you’ve felt like you’ve been on one of these things going this way for a really long time, it can start help you be on one of these things going this way. And it kind of that wheel turns both ways if that makes sense.

Steve Wright:

Yeah, it’s like the first principle.

Mike Roesslein:

Here’s a really valid question. If I increase my dose will my body stop producing enzymes and become forever dependent?

Steve Wright:

Yeah, Maria, this question has been on my mind for the last 10 years. And in 10 years, I have not found a single scientist, researcher or anyone who can explain a theory or even a potential pathology in which there’s a negative feedback loop. Negative feedback meaning that taking exogenous or taking extra enzymes somehow shows the body that it shouldn’t make as many. Up until this point, literally I’ve bought books that were like written in 1920. Like anything that mentions enzymes, I buy it even if it’s off eBay and it’s like really moldy and just messed up because I want to know if somebody has worked out a theory about digestive enzyme production going down by taking extra enzymes. I have not found it. And I haven’t seen it clinically either. And when I asked old-time naturopaths, old-time integrative docs, who’ve been around like 70, 80 years old, they’ve been doing this for 40 years, 50 years, they don’t see it and report that in their patient population either.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah. I’ve not seen it with that. I’ve seen it with certain hormones you can take. I’ve seen it with certain neurotransmitters or precursors to that, that you can take that it has some feedback loops. I’ve not seen it with enzymes. The other one people claim that about a lot that I’ve never seen any evidence is melatonin. I’ve never seen a negative feedback loop on that either. So I’ve looked for it too, because I’ve personally taken some form of digestive enzyme for like 10 years. If I’m eating a meal that I know will go well for me 99% of the time, I may just take one just to optimize the absorption of the food and make sure I’m getting all the stuff. And then if I’m going heavy with the dairy or heavy with the popcorn or eating popcorn and ice cream in the same night, I will take a bunch of digestive enzymes.

               And so, I don’t… Like you’re saying the studies are two per meal, two at this time. That’s not how I personally use digestive enzymes. It’s like one here if this is an easy meal for me, it’s three here if this one is something I know is a problem and people can kind of use their own judgment with that. And I think they’re a great compliment to like the MegaSpore or probiotic and everything else. I don’t think these are like either, or I think it’s just a complementary approach and it’s been a staple for us forever. And now we just have one that works better. That’s kind of how I’m looking at it. It’s not like I tried a new product class or line or type that I wasn’t trying before. It was just like, I stopped that one and started this one. It works better and I take less of them. It’s about half. From what I’ve noticed, I have to take about half as many capsules.

               And so, it saves me that way too. So, nightshades-

Steve Wright:

Yeah, there [crosstalk 00:55:52].

Mike Roesslein:

… isn’t nightshades is usually an immune situation, I think. And I don’t know though, do enzymes relate to nightshades at all? I don’t think so.

Steve Wright:

No. I’d focus on your leaky gut and your immune dysregulation for nightshades.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah, I think that’s more of an immune… So, I talked at the beginning about how some reactions are immune system and then digestive symptoms are traditionally like enzymes or poor pH or poor digestion. I think nightshades generally fall in the former of like an immune-

Steve Wright:

And it could be… But there’s the thing about trying to overcome those immune reactions. If you change the molecule shape through using an enzyme product, there is a chance that you might avoid-

Mike Roesslein:

The reaction.

Steve Wright:

… the immune tagging system. Right. So the way the immune system recognizes is it might see it as something different. So, the most intelligent leaky gut protocols in my opinion, have to have enzymes in there because you want to change the protein structures and the carbohydrate structures, anything that could be reactive in order to just chill that immune system out in your gut. So-

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah, for sure.

Steve Wright:

… it’s worth the test, but by itself, I’m not going to say that it’s going to do it all by itself. But I do want to just hit this one thing, this idea of a first principle, which if people aren’t familiar with that, it’s basically, you can’t reduce it further. You can’t reduce the idea further than the first principle. And one of that first principles is like anything that you put in your mouth that you cannot absorb, which means that it had to go through the breakdown process is a toxin. Or if it’s a fermentable fiber and your microbiome can ferment it, that’s also part of it. But basically, if it’s going outside of the normal fermentation process, then it’s a toxin. And so that’s where things like kale is not a superfood for you. That’s where people can react to meat. I’ve seen tests showing that someone has a beef allergy. A beef allergy is almost impossible to create on a test, but it’s possible if your enzyme function and your leaky gut is so bad that all your stuff is just flowing right into the bloodstream.

               And so, when it comes to enzymes and enzyme function, would I be stuck on this for the rest of my life? Is this a crutch? If you go by first principles, you have to harvest the nutrients from your food to heal anything else, let alone live. So, I think it’s a [inaudible 00:58:31]. It’s like, yes. And if you’re stuck on enzymes the rest of your life, that’s a pretty awesome compromise to feel really good. And that’s how I look at it at this point, because I don’t love taking handfuls of pills. I get a little excited, so it’s not totally true whenever something comes in from like Russia, but in general, I don’t ever want to be reliant if I don’t have to be. And so enzymes to me are right up there with your vitamin D3, your magnesium, your probiotic.

               If you’re somebody who has a banged-up gut, you’ve struggled most of your life, you don’t have a gallbladder, you have bile issues, you have food sensitivities, you have any sort of GI upset at all, give it a shot because you’d be surprised. So many people were like, “I didn’t think this would do anything. I tried so many other enzyme brands.” And I get it. This is like kind of a hard pitch. It’s not that exciting, but it’s that fundamentally different that I’m here talking with you, with Michael. Normally we hang out, but normally we wouldn’t just chat about enzymes.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah. Well, it’s exciting to me when I’m eating popcorn, I’ll tell you that much and for other people… Like, I don’t want to make light of it because I know that my inconvenience of not being able to eat popcorn without feeling bloated afterwards is like literally a zero out of 10 when compared to the people we’re talking about who are down to eating five foods, or they can’t eat whole food groups or like any vegetables make them bloated. I am not going to encounter some sort of health issue because I will develop a popcorn deficiency if I can’t eat popcorn. Now, I don’t want to compare it. So, if somebody is out there and they really struggle with digestion, please know I’m just kidding around. Like it is fun and it is nice and it is helpful, but that truly was the way that I tested it because it’s the only food that messes me up and it does and I like it.

               So, that’s like his chips and wine and my popcorn, that’s how to test something. And so, yeah, enzymes are just part of what I do. I take… Yeah, it’s systemic enzyme and I actually let those run out half the time now and just pop a couple of these before I go to bed anyways. But enzymes do so many things in the body. Some of which we understand, some of which we don’t. Mechanisms we understand, some of which we don’t. And breaking down, how you mentioned breaking down the food because immune reactions to the food is oftentimes the immune system not recognizing that food particle because it hasn’t been broken down properly. So, you may be surprised on what they could do.

               And I know it seems super simple because a lot of people who’ve probably seen positive results with this have probably tried way more complex stuff like doing this crazy protocol with this specific diet at this time and only eating at this hour of the day and doing all these things and then it’s almost like deflating to try a couple of digestive enzymes and then be able to eat the thing and feel better because you just did these 72,000 things. But I like simple. I’m a fan of simple. I used to chase those complex fixes for all the things until I realized there are simpler ones.

               And I definitely have seen really good results. We’ve had it in our wellness vault area on the website which was a link out for a while. The wellness vault doesn’t get a ton of traffic and visibility and I felt so strongly about this product that I wanted to have it directly in our shop. So when you’re ordering the MegaSpore or any of the other Microbiome Labs products or we’ve got the molecular hydrogen from Quicksilver in there, just a few products that are like my staples that I really like. You can throw it right in with that, get it all in one place. We’ll probably create a cool bundle where you can get enzymes and probiotics and stuff together and Steve’s got a couple more products he’s created that we’re to bring him back to talk about soon and add those in.

               And there’s only, I think three brands that I’ve ever had in our shop in seven years. And so, a lot of people request a lot of things and if I don’t think it’s awesome, I don’t put it in the shop and we’ve probably left a lot of money on the table because of that approach. I see some of these people that have these supplement shops on their site that have like 190 supplements in it and I scroll through it and I’m just like, “I wouldn’t recommend that. I wouldn’t recommend that. And I wouldn’t recommend that. And this business probably makes way more money than mine does.” And I don’t care. Like I can’t care. Like I can’t do it.

               And so, if we put it in there and we’re getting it in there and we’re sharing it and it’s in our shop with everything else, I hope that speaks something about the quality because I can’t explain to you how many products I’ve been pitched in the last however long we’ve had this company. So, kudos to you and the work that you’ve done to create them. And I always love to see things like that being born out of the individual’s own challenges and journey and things. And I know that right now, you’re saying I can’t eat tortilla chips and red wine, but I know that at some point earlier in your life, you were where they are, you were the person making the desperate phone call. Like I can’t eat anything or I pooped for 22 hours straight. And so, I know you get it. And I know that you can relate.

Steve Wright:

Yeah. Yeah, I do. I appreciate the kind words and thank you for carrying us inside the Rebel Health Tribe and putting your stamp of approval on us. And yeah, this comes from a birth defect where I almost died when I was a little infant all the way through way too many antibiotics and almost getting fired for farting, pooping myself on a computer bus, just really embarrassing and a ton and ton of pain that I don’t wish upon anyone. And so, I’ve been there where I didn’t eat dairy for four years and now I can take some HoloZymes and eat ice cream and not have an issue. And that’s my goal for everybody. Like whenever I’m building products for everybody in our community… If you’re part of Rebel Health, as far as I’m concerned, you’re part of my community as well now, now that we’re partnered up officially and just reach out because it might just be the dosing issue. And if it’s not I know Rebel Health has a good policy, but we’ll take care of you at Healthy Gut if you make your way over there as well.

               My goal is to create products that are the best in every category that we create them in and acknowledging that the placebo effect, the mental effect, whatever it is for some of you, it might not work. And so, when that happens, I want to have an idea for next about what to do and where to go after that because this is not the end. That just eliminates one idea. So, everybody who’s listening, I hope you keep going. I hope you keep trying. I hope you get off of the elimination diet frenzy and start trying to figure out how to add these foods in because I think that’s really what Microbiome Labs is all about, that’s what Healthy Gut’s all about, that’s what Rebel Health Tribe is all about. We got to get people eating more food groups again.

Mike Roesslein:

Yeah, for sure. And I put the link there in the chat. We created a little one-time use 10% if you want to give it a try, a coupon for your first order on the site. And we’ll definitely have Steve back. I want to do more of these because I know that you’ve got a couple other products that I’m really interested in that I don’t know a ton about. And so, because we’ve already chatted about these. I’ve already been taking them a while. So, I was a little bit queued up on what I knew I wanted to ask and talk about in my own knowledge a little bit, I’m going to come in as the amateur for sure on the others. And I’m not going to do research beforehand on purpose so that you can teach me about them too. And I’m happy to be partnered with you. I trust your integrity as much as anybody that I know in the industry.

               And I think both of us are kind of in that, like we couldn’t do something shady even if we had to type of situation. Like I just don’t. I know that we share that just high level of integrity and just genuine desire to help people. And I believe these enzymes do that and it can be a simple solution that can help you enjoy foods more and bring in more nutrients that can help the healing process go on. So, thanks so much, Steve, I’m really looking forward to where this goes and I’m grateful for you creating this product and for taking the time to come chat about it. And we’re going to blast this out to the whole rebel health tribe community. Hey, everyone. Probably on Friday and we’ll get it out this weekend and we’re going to make a big announcement that we’ve got a new partner in the shop.

               So, I’m excited to help more people get their chips or their red wine or their popcorn or their kale or their salads or whatever it is that they are. And then I’ve got a couple of introductions to make to you from the attendees here, practitioners in various spots. So let’s just keep the ball rolling and enjoy the rest of your trip and the Airbnb internet held up so that we did it.

Steve Wright:

Yeah. Thank you [crosstalk 01:07:42].

Mike Roesslein:

All right. Cool. Thanks. Ruth says tequila. I’m not going to comment on that. All right. See you later, man.

Steve Wright:

Next webinar. All right. See you.

Mike Roesslein:

All right.