Michael Roessle…: All right. So now we’re recording. Hello, everyone. We are here today for another video conversation about the current global health crisis around COVID-19. We are going to be talking some biochemistry and microbiology of this specific virus a little bit, and of our immune system as a whole and what we’ve learned so far. Some simple actions people might want to take that could be helpful. We’ll answer some questions. We cannot give you specific medical advice. Nobody’s making any cure claims.
Michael Roessle…: We’re going to just share what we’ve learned and what we know, maybe what we’re doing for ourselves and our families, and things of that nature. We just have to be pretty careful as far as what we can and can’t talk about. It’s true that there’s not a ton of facts known at this point regarding treatments and things. I just want to be really clear on that. They are shutting down pretty much anyone and everyone who’s making medical claims around this. I would like to continue doing these videos. Kiran, thanks for coming on.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, it’s my pleasure.
Michael Roessle…: Now you are grounded.
Kiran Krishnan: Yep. Unusual situation for me. A lot of this is bittersweet for me in many ways. Number one, if anyone knows my origin story into science, I got into science because of pandemics. Watching that movie Outbreak a long, long time ago, that’s what got me to go into microbiology. Because I knew even then at 19, that at some point, a pandemic is going to be what really brings us to our knees.
Kiran Krishnan: My goal was to work for the CDC, which I’m glad now that life took me in different routes and I do what I do. This aspect of it for me… It’s really weird, because it’s like what I’d always envisioned, something like this would happen. And then of course, one advantage I have is that I get to work from home. That’s a luxury that I have. Traveling most of the time, but getting to be home has benefits for me personally. It’s nice to spend time with the kids and all that. But also realizing that that is a luxury and that a lot of people don’t have that luxury.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, it is. The experiences around this which we’re going to talk about are going to vary widely, based on… Can you work from home? Is job secure? Is it not? Have we lost income? Is everybody healthy? We’re going to try to discuss some ways for those who are in more fortunate situations to potentially help out those who aren’t.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: Also, what we’re personally doing and ways to just adjust to this different reality that we now find ourselves in for an unspecific amount of time. That we really don’t know what’s going to happen, and dealing with that uncertainty too.
Michael Roessle…: Let’s jump in first to… I’m sure as if pandemics are what got you into science, you’ve probably been a bit of a nerd trying to find anything you can find about this coming out of China or coming out of anywhere because there is… I’ve been pretty impressed with the amount of papers that have already come out. I think due to the internet and technology, we are seeing information around this virus come out at a speed that is unprecedented as far as… In the Spanish flu, there were probably a million people dead before parts of the world even knew that it was happening.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: The collaboration has been impressive.
Kiran Krishnan: It is. Even when you compare it to just the H1N1 or the SARS and the MERS, just a decade ago. We’re in a different world. The speed of information is lightning fast. Researchers have really jumped on this. It’s really amazing to see that. The number of publications, both laboratory and clinical that have come out in the last month, has been mind boggling. It’s awesome to be able to read through that stuff, trying to understand it. We still have of course, way more questions than we have any answers, but we have some clues as to what this is and what it may do.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. On that discussion, my understanding is that this is a respiratory virus for the most part, but that it can affect other body systems and that it seems to almost be able to not find, but take advantage of one’s weakest links in some ways.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. From a virus standpoint, let’s talk about this from if we were the virus. From a virus standpoint, it’s not a very good virus in the sense that what a virus tries to do because a virus doesn’t have its own replication machinery, it needs a host. The host is essential for the virus to survive.
Kiran Krishnan: The really well-evolved viruses remain in the host for the life of the host without causing illness of the host, for the most part. You think of things like herpes virus or papilloma viruses, or even like cytomegalovirus, Epstein–Barr. They remain latent in us for long, long periods of time. They don’t give us these significant illnesses in a short amount of time, and that’s really what a virus is supposed to do. Because if people aren’t sure what a virus is like, it’s basically either a protein code which is a capsid virus, which this is not, fortunately. We’ll talk about why that is.
Kiran Krishnan: This is an envelope virus. So it means it’s a fatty pocket. Inside, there is basically RNA, or this DNA virus as well. Now all it has is this code. It doesn’t have a ribosome, it doesn’t have a nucleus, it doesn’t have replication machinery. All it can do is go and find a cell and hijack the cell’s replication machinery to make virus within the cell itself. That’s what it has to do. Now if a virus does that, and while it’s doing that it kills off its host, it’s not a very good virus because it’s killed off its reservoir and its machinery. Think Ebola for example, is not a very smart virus, not a very good virus. It kills its host too fast. So this virus being in the family of coronaviruses… and there are coronaviruses that do a great job of living within its host and not really causing too much to disturbances.
Kiran Krishnan: There are coronaviruses that kill their hosts at really high levels. This one falls somewhere in the middle. It kills too many of its hosts, and it does so in too short of a period of time. So from that perspective, we understand that this virus is severely problematic because it’s new to our system. The virus hasn’t evolved and our immune system hasn’t trained to recognize it and deal with it.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. The difference here, Ebola is far more deadly, but it kills the host so fast that it can’t really spread to far off places. No one’s going to be getting Ebola in Africa and then making it to an airport, and then flying on a cross-Atlantic flight, and then going to a bar in New York, and then infecting 200 people, because they’ll be dead before they get on the airplane.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. The transmissibility of this virus is the biggest problem, because you are very contagious when you have no symptoms. That was the difference between their original SARS and MERS as well. Right? Those are very deadly viruses. The original SARS has a mortality rate of around 16%. When it all shakes out, that’s probably going to be 16 times higher than this particular COVID-19. Or MERS was around 30%, so that’s 30 times higher than this particular COVID-19. But the difference there, and why we had just a few thousand cases globally is because people were not contagious until they started showing symptoms. And once they started showing symptoms, they were so sick they couldn’t go anywhere anyway. So it really was pretty well contained on its own.
Kiran Krishnan: This virus is problematic because you could be completely asymptomatic and contagious, or you can be contagious before you show symptoms. And that’s where this whole premise of social distancing and locking down becomes so important.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, and that’s what I think people are really having a hard time with. Because in our culture, we do pretty well, most people, at… “I’m sick. I’m going to stay home if I can.” Or, “That person’s sick. Stay away from that person.” What’s been I think cognitive issue with this is, “I’m not sick. I’m fine. I don’t need to stay home.” Or, “I don’t need to stay away from my grandma.” Or, “I don’t need to stay away.” Mira’s parents live three blocks away, and we’re not going to see them.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: I have things to bring them, and I bring them the things. I put them outside, and then we may wave from 10, 15 feet away, but I’m not going in their house.
Kiran Krishnan: No. And in fact, one of the hardest things so far for me in this whole thing is saying no to my mom. My mom wanted to visit about seven or eight days ago, and she was back from work. She works in Missouri. She runs an ICU, she’s an internal medicine ICU doc. She comes back to Chicago for six, seven days, and goes back for a week. So when she was here, we had already kind of locked down. She wanted to come visit. I said no. She cried about it. It’s sad to her. It was really hard for me to say no to her coming to visiting, but we break that containment if we do that. We didn’t know at that time if we were carriers, because up to that point, we had still been exposed in different areas, just being out in public. The kids were still in school, and we had just pulled them out of school a day-and-a-half before that. I had just come back from a trip about five days before that. So we didn’t know. We could have been carriers. We could have exposed her. Or she just came back from work a few days before that, she could have still been a carrier. We don’t know that. Right?
Kiran Krishnan: My message to people is don’t be a vector, because we are the reservoir for this virus. If we stop being vectors and we stop transmitting the virus, it’ll disappear. It’ll be gone. It’s not a virus that’s coming in from mosquitoes biting us. It’s not a deer tick. It’s not some sort of animal contamination. It’s not like cholera, where it’s in the water supply. This is in us. And so we have all the powers to stop it in its tracks, as long as we stay put and don’t transmit it to others. And of course, there’s lots of people that have to still go out there and work. But the less of us that are out there mingling with them, the better off they are.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, I’ve shared… maybe I’ll put it in the chat. I’ve been trying to share it every single day on social media, the post from I believe it’s the Washington Post that has animations for social distancing. It is little ping-pong balls in an enclosure. It shows like a full quarantine, and that’s where part of the block gets blocked off, and then all the balls in the quarantine get sick. Then they all… some of them die, some of them recover. Then they let out the recovered ones, and the recovered ones don’t make everybody else sick.
Kiran Krishnan: Right.
Michael Roessle…: Then there’s social distancing, where two-thirds of the balls aren’t moving. Then the balls still infect each other, but people recover at a faster rate and there’s less of a wave of infection. And then they have one where nothing is done.
Kiran Krishnan: Right.
Michael Roessle…: And it’s just balls bouncing off each other, and everyone’s sick at the same time.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: Everyone’s sick at the same time, is what we’re trying to avoid.
Kiran Krishnan: Absolutely.
Michael Roessle…: You can just post that, by the way. If anybody wants to bookmark that, I highly recommend sharing it. All right, go ahead.
Kiran Krishnan: Awesome. We can do comparisons to the flu, if people have questions about that. I know a lot of people have been asking me about that as well. But just to give a couple of real world examples of what Michael was just talking about… When the biggest part of the outbreak started in New York, it started in this area north of New York City, in a smaller community. They were able to trace 50 positive cases in that area to one person. Right? One lawyer in New York. And this is not to demonize him, because he didn’t know he had it or anything. But he was positive with COVID-19, and then came home. And then was home for I think, a day or so. I’m not getting the exact details right. But then he transmitted it to his whole family in the house, and then started to feel ill a day-and-a-half later. And then his neighbor who was a close friend of his, drove him to the hospital. That neighbor got it from just that drive. Then that neighbor brought it back to his family. Then some of them went to a bar mitzvah a couple of days later, and then 50 people in a matter of a week are infected from one source. This just happened.
Kiran Krishnan: I saw an article about it in Wisconsin, where a single doctor who didn’t have symptoms yet was still contagious and carrying it, and he was at work and all of this. And then finally, when he started feeling symptoms, he got tested. Now they are testing and isolating 200 people from just a few days of his movements, because that’s how quickly it connects and spreads. Right?
Kiran Krishnan: If you choose to be a vector, if you can and you don’t choose to stay put and social distance yourself, then you could likely be a source for over 200 people. Somewhere in that chain of 200 people, somebody’s going to die. You know? So not to sound morbid, but that’s the reality of it. Right? At a 1% mortality rate in 200 people, we’re looking at two people that will end up succumbing to this, because we went out and because we got together with a friend. “Oh, it’s just one person. I’m just having coffee with them.” Well, no. You transmit it to that one person, there is a chain of events that occurs where somebody is get hurt.
Michael Roessle…: You don’t control what they do from there. The neighbor who went to the bar mitzvah and whatever… yeah. And because of Mira’s work, we’re treating ourselves in all situations as if we are-
Kiran Krishnan: Positive.
Michael Roessle…: Positive.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. I think that’s the message. Everyone should just assume they’re positive. Until we can get to the point where we’re getting human mass testing, which is what we need desperately-
Michael Roessle…: It’s so insane, though.
Kiran Krishnan: Right?
Michael Roessle…: Because you mentioned you can make it go away and people are like, “Well, no you can’t.” Well in Korea, they have… South Korea has very few new cases right now. China, people are debating whether or not to trust numbers coming out of China. But I know doctors are leaving China to help in other countries, and I don’t believe that would be happening if things were not under control there. In Singapore, they got it under control very quickly.
Kiran Krishnan: Like in two weeks, it’s amazing.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. In South Korea and the United States… I read an article today, we had our first official confirmed cases on the same day.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: And within two weeks, South Korea had upped national production of test kits and everything else times a million, and they were testing tens of thousands of people a day. They were able to isolate and quarantine specific people who were tested positive. Now, they have very few new cases. It’s totally under control. We’re doing none of that. So then people are posting those things, saying, “Oh look, it’s already under control in these other places.” As some sort of, we’re winning right now. The “we” is not them. What they did, we are not doing. That’s the issue. As of right now, as far as I know, we can do about 3,000 test processes per day in the U.S. as a country. It might have gone up this week. At one point last week, that’s what it is. South Korea was doing 20,000 a day, and they are 1% the size of the United States.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. They’ve done well over 300,000 plus tests just in the last couple of weeks. The thing is, they’re testing. We still have criteria. I’ve read, and I know people who feel like they have symptoms, and they’ve gone. They still have to jump through these hoops to get tested. I just saw a news report on Good Morning America from a reporter who went to cover the outbreak in Washington, and came back and started having symptoms. When she initially tried to get tested, they were saying… and she lives in California. They were saying, “No, you don’t qualify for testing.” And then finally when they found out, oh, she was in Washington, then she qualified for it. But if she was just a California person starting to feel symptoms, it’d be hard for her to go get a test, which is absolutely insane.
Michael Roessle…: They’re pretty much out of kits here.
Kiran Krishnan: It’s crazy. I think hopefully, industry will step up further. I know Roche and another company, I can’t remember what the name of it is, has stepped up. They have created high-throughput tests so they can do it faster. Now, it’s a matter of the government actually purchasing them and pushing those.
Michael Roessle…: Mass production. It should be a wartime effort at this point, to produce test kits, ventilators, N95 masks, PPEs. They’re just woefully… I don’t even want to get into that, because Mira’s an ER nurse and what they’re going to be walking into with a lack of protective equipment. We were talking on the phone today. With the high death rate in Italy, a lot of that is simply because the medical system is overrun, and people are dying because they can’t treat everyone.
Kiran Krishnan: They can’t, yeah.
Michael Roessle…: If we can slow that down, all of those deaths can be avoided.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. Because remember, the treatment for this is breathing support, is respiration support. Most people who can get treated that way, will recover. Even the high risk people, even the elderly, most of the elderly do recover if they can get-
Michael Roessle…: If they’re treated.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. If they can’t get treated, then they have zero chance.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. If the situation is, “Oh that person’s over 65, put them over there. Let’s work on the people who are in their 40s.” All of those people die. Whereas if, “Okay, here comes in someone. We can save 80% of these people.”
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: That’s the situation that the medical system in Italy is facing. I had Dr. Maya Shetreat, do you know her or met her?
Kiran Krishnan: Oh, Maya. Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: We’ve done a lot with her. I recorded a video with her last week. She has connections to doctors in Italy right now in the front lines. They’re shellshocked. They’re just like, “We can’t treat people.” There are people dying in the hallways. That’s the message they’re trying to get out to the world, is slow it down and we’ll save a ton of lives. And like you said, the death rate will end up being around 1%.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. In fact, in Korea, it’s lower than that because of the way they are doing it.
Michael Roessle…: Yep.
Kiran Krishnan: Countries that are responding really well, the death rate is hovering under one or less. China, the response wasn’t so great in the beginning, so their death rate overall from the beginning is little closer to two-and-a-half.
Michael Roessle…: But they also didn’t know what it was.
Kiran Krishnan: They didn’t know what it was. They were denying it, it seemed like for a while. At least that’s the messaging we’re getting.
Michael Roessle…: It’s tough getting information out of a vacuum.
Kiran Krishnan: It is. But here’s another thing that I’ve been hearing from people too, is that when this started and as it’s going on right now, it’s still being viewed as a condition that that elderly people are at the most risk. But data coming out of Europe right now is showing that over 50% of the cases are people under the age of 50. These are the serious cases that need hospitalization. Right? So younger people are affected as well. A lot of it depends on your status, your health status. Your degree of inflammation, your comorbidities, all the things that are going on.
Michael Roessle…: Vitamins.
Kiran Krishnan: Whether you smoke, or have smoked in the past. All of these things make a difference. So it’s not just a disease of the elderly. There are 30-year-olds and 40-year-olds that are on life support right now for this, including doctors. There’s an ER doc who’s in his 40s, and is battling for his life. Right? It’s not just a disease of older people. Younger people can also be affected. As we’re seeing in Europe, that proportion of younger people that are affected is becoming bigger.
Michael Roessle…: You mentioned, not older people or younger people, comorbidities. We talked on the phone, that this is really shining a light on how vulnerable and unhealthy our population really is. In most of the Western world. It’s no coincidence, I don’t think, that the Asian countries as a whole have less chronic disease and live healthier lives, and are recovering faster and are less susceptible. The Italian population is the oldest population, and they’re heavy smokers. The population here isn’t as old and doesn’t smoke as much, but we have more chronic disease. That might be a wash.
Michael Roessle…: And people might hear that, and think… Oh, that’s not really helpful to be told you’re all sick and unhealthy, so now we’re all going to die from this thing. Yes, some markers and some things around health and chronic disease do take time to reverse or change or improve. To lose 50 pounds, is not going to happen in a week. To reverse diabetes, is not going to happen in a week. To do these types of things, is not going to happen in a week. But there are things you can do right now that change the acute situation in your body. Inflammation wise, nutrient wise, hormonally, stress wise, all of those things, that can radically shift your status as a host. Right?
Kiran Krishnan: Totally, yeah. Because as it turns out and we’re learning more and more about this each day, but this is also true for other coronaviruses, it has a mechanism that has evolved to target the weakest in the herd. Right? Again, the virus is trying to find the most susceptible host, the host whose immune system likely won’t do as good of a job defending itself. One of the ways it does that is through this mechanism of binding to that ACE2 receptor.
Kiran Krishnan: The ACE2 receptor is a really interesting mechanism to look at. Because in fact, the expression of the ACE2 receptor is an anti-inflammatory expression in our system. So it’s a beneficial receptor. The problem is, it tends to express when we have a lot of tissue damage and when we have a lot of inflammation in the body. That’s why it’s expressed higher in people with heart disease or people with diabetes, or aging populations, or people who smoke. Because anytime there’s damage to the endothelial or epithelial linings in your body, then your body is working against ACE1 and renin system, and increasing the expression of ACE2, which is an anti-inflammatory system.
Kiran Krishnan: The way the virus has evolved, is it learned that those that expressed high levels of ACE2 are people whose bodies are under stress, are under inflammatory damage, are under endothelial and epithelial damage. So it marks the sickest of us in the population. This is what it uses as its target to bind to the cells, and get into the cell and take over the machinery.
Michael Roessle…: What are the factors that… So the sicker people have more of these receptors?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: What are the known factors that make you have more of those receptors?
Kiran Krishnan: Studies show that people with… A lot of chronic conditions increase the expression of these receptors. Things like diabetes, glucose metabolism issues. Glycation in the vessels, itself. And because of that glycation, you get damage to the epithelial of the vessels. That damage in itself increases the expression of ACE2. The damage on the lining of the vessels from high blood pressure. Higher blood pressure causes more forced damage to the inside of the vessels, and that forced damage actually increases the expression of the ACE2. That’s one of the reasons why people use ACE inhibitors for high blood pressure. ACE inhibitors inhibit ACE1. ACE1 will then increase the expression of ACE2, which helps repair the damage that’s going on in the vessels. Right? And then also, any sort of chronic inflammatory damage.
Kiran Krishnan: We’ve been looking at studies on LPS, for example. Increased LPS in the system increases the expression of ACE2, because ACE2 can repair the body from LPS damage. There are the studies on that. Any sort of inflammatory chronic illness seems to increase the expression of ACE2. Now the crazy part is, ACE2 is expressed not only in the lungs, but on the heart. It’s expressed in most of your circulatory system, and in the gut as well. It’s expressed quite readily in the gut, especially in damage going on in the gut.
Kiran Krishnan: That’s why now, American Journal of Gastroenterology study just came out like three days ago that showed that a little over 50% of the COVID-19 positive cases presented first with GI symptoms. With loose stool, diarrhea, cramping, painful bowels. Right? Which means a couple of things. Number one, the virus entered orally and started to replicate inside the gut, and it’s targeting the ACE2 receptors inside the gut. So the more damage you have to the gut and the more inflamed your gut is, the more it has a chance to replicate. Once it’s replicating in the gut and the gut starts acting as a reservoir, it can get into the basal lateral circulation and make its way to-
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:27:04]
Kiran Krishnan: As a reservoir, it can get into the basal lateral circulation and make its way to other parts of the body. To the lungs, to the upper respiratory track, and so on. This-
Michael Roessle…: [crosstalk] be through food?
Kiran Krishnan: My guess is it’s through food or through the-
Michael Roessle…: Touching of the mouth?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, touching of the mouth, because we just touch our mouth and all that too much.
Michael Roessle…: This is not killed in the stomach, you don’t think, or if it’s on a certain type of vehicle?
Kiran Krishnan: If it’s coming in on an empty stomach, my guess is it’s going to be killed by stomach acid. But it speaks more to the fact that it’s probably hidden in food. If you pick up food with the contaminated hand and eat it, then the food can protect the virus to a certain degree as it goes in. Yeah, it speaks more to food being a bit of a vector there as well.
Michael Roessle…: How would you recommend washing food, like produce or any type of food like that? Do you have a strategy for that or know what’s effective? Because I’m one of those people that never washed my produce before, and now I got food and I’m like, “Okay I need to wash this.”
Kiran Krishnan: Any kind of cooked food, as long as you’re above 130 degrees, you’re fine.
Michael Roessle…: Everything’s good?
Kiran Krishnan: It obliterates the virus, yeah. Even food that we’re buying, because we’ve got a local chef that sends us food that’s prepared. Even though it’s already cooked and she’s sending it, we are reheating it to above 130 just to make sure. Any fresh fruit like produce and all that, this is going to sound crazy coming from me because I’m not a sterilizing guy. I never had Clorox at home, now I’ve got a bunch of Clorox, is make a chlorine solution with water.
Kiran Krishnan: That’s what they do during harvest, you make somewhere around, it’s a 3%, 4%, 5% chlorine solution in water. Most people can still buy chlorine now, you should be able to get that. And then, make a chlorine solution, soak the vegetables in that, and then rinse it off really good to get as much of that chlorine off of it. But that’ll get rid of the virus. There’s no evidence so far that ACV is going to kill it, or vinegar. We don’t know, and it’s not worth taking a chance.
Michael Roessle…: Chlorine is not bleach?
Kiran Krishnan: Not bleach, no. You can get-
Michael Roessle…: I don’t want to put bleach on my food.
Kiran Krishnan: Chlorine is like the chlorine that you get for swimming pools. You can do the shock chlorine, so you can make a chlorine solution, and that’s what they use in produce. Most of the produce when it’s harvested goes through the chlorine wash to begin with. We’ll have to look up what percentage, I think that’s like a 4% or 5% chlorine solution.
Michael Roessle…: Where or how right now do you think people might be able to get that?
Kiran Krishnan: You should be able to order it. Chlorine can come in little tabs or it comes in a dropper solution, and most of it is for swimming pools. That shouldn’t be sold out, people have not been hoarding chlorine. Once all the wipes and all that went away, I just started ordering pure isopropyl alcohol. Because people aren’t going on and searching for isopropyl alcohol and buying all that up, so you could still find that. And if you get pure isopropyl alcohol, you can mix it and make a 70% isopropyl alcohol solution with water and that kills everything, too. I know isopropyl alcohol at 70% kills Ebola, so it’ll obliterate everything. You could spray that on packages and all that stuff, too, and we could talk about what I do with packages and so on.
Michael Roessle…: What about hydrogen peroxide? Someone asked.
Kiran Krishnan: My guess is it does, but we don’t have data on it yet. The EPA did a bunch of studies on some of the things that kill it. We know that ammonium chloride kills it, we know ethanol kills it, we know isopropyl alcohol, we know chlorine and bleach kill it. Those are the things we want to be safe with. I’m guessing hydrogen peroxide would, but we don’t know so want to be absolutely-
Michael Roessle…: Then two people mentioned it, and I talked to you about this on the phone. The HOCl is something you talked about with Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, and he has a paper from University of Washington showing its effectiveness. We have some here and we’re using that as our spray and on our hands, face, because it’s not toxic and can go on the skin. They make home generators, I don’t know … He uses and recommends a product from a company called BRIOTECH that we have some of that here. I know there are home generators. Over the weekend, I’m going to be looking into the home generators versus buying, because it gets expensive to buy it a lot. Ozone and ozone water, I don’t know. Ozone itself air, ozone itself kills everything, but that’s also super toxic. So, I would not be anywhere near ozone gas for any reason.
Kiran Krishnan: It’s not going to help your lungs, that’s for sure.
Michael Roessle…: No, and so I wouldn’t. Product with 40% available chlorine sufficient, I really don’t know. It would be, he said 3% to 5% in the water, I don’t know what that product is or solution. We can do a little follow-up chat on this and try to set a-
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. Here’s the thing with produce, it’s obviously really important right now to eat your vegetables and all that. I actually haven’t eaten a non-cooked salad in a while. We’ve just been cooking all our vegetables, that’s the safest way to do it. You can buy vegetables like you normally do [crosstalk] delivered, and wash them like you normally would, and then just cook them just to be safe.
Michael Roessle…: If you get delivery food, reheat it hot.
Kiran Krishnan: Reheat it hot. Now, here’s the important thing when you get delivery food. The outside containers, which either are cardboard or plastic, if somebody with contaminated hands touched them, that can be a vector for the virus. What we are doing is we’re taking the containers and we’re dumping all the food into our own containers, our own glass containers that have already been washed and cleaned, and then we’re tossing those containers out. And then you clean your hands and clean anything that those delivery containers touched just to be overly cautious. Don’t bring the Chinese food container and then put it in your fridge and just eat off of that, right, or don’t-
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, the viruses like the cold.
Kiran Krishnan: They do, fridge preserves them. So, we’re doing that. Same thing we’re doing with our packages, right, to give you an example. And again, a lot of this is crazy because I’m not as you guys [crosstalk 00:33:36].
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, me too. I had to scramble to learn all of this because I’ve never cleaned or sanitized to anything. And then all of a sudden I’m like, “I literally don’t know what to do because I never wash anything.”
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. And I had to go back to my … When I was doing research and I remember I wanted to get into pandemics, was I start … I was working on an HIV vaccine project. So we were working with live infectious virus and I was in a BSL-3 lab. Which means that there’s all these rules of how you enter and exit the lab, and how things come in and out of the lab, so it’s called Biosafety Level 3. I started tapping back into some of those procedures to deal with it, so let me talk people through these practical aspects of what you can do.
Kiran Krishnan: I’ve got a squirt bottle, a spray bottle with Isopropyl alcohol solution in it. It’s 70% Isopropyl alcohol, right? When a package gets delivered to our front door, I let it sit there, and I typically let it sit there just an hour or so. And then the delivery person is gone and so whatever was in their environment is now settled and gone. Open the door and then I actually, when the package is outside, I actually give it a decent spray. Whether it’s a cardboard box, or an envelope, or whatever it may be, I give it a little spray of Isopropyl alcohol, let it sit for a little bit, it evaporates pretty quickly.
Kiran Krishnan: 10 seconds is the contact time required for most of these disinfectants to kill COVID-19, so you’ve got to let it sit on there for 10 seconds. Then I bring it in the house, so now the outer packaging is cleaned off, it’s sterile. And then I open it, and then I take the contents out, and then everything I take out I wipe down with the sterilizing wipe and I set it aside. And then after everything that has brought out of the package has been cleaned and set aside, then I take that cardboard box, or envelope, or whatever and I put it in the garage in the recycling. I don’t bring that and stack them in the house, I don’t store them in the house.
Kiran Krishnan: So everything that enters your threshold should go through a cleaning step and be cleaned and sterilized before it enters your home where it sits in your home, and your cabinets, and your fridge, and everything. So just think about things that way. You shouldn’t fear getting mail, you shouldn’t fear getting packages. You shouldn’t fear getting delivery of food. Just take these steps and you’ll be totally fine.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. I’m happy, I’ve been pretty close. We’re using the HOCl spray, but I’m going to get some of this other stuff too. I bring the packages in but to the downstairs laundry area and then kind of set them on the floor, and then I spray them a little. And then when I do open them, I get rid of the boxes right away. I spray the stuff that comes out of them, and then I wash my hands and then spray the area where the boxes were.
Kiran Krishnan: Exactly. That’s exactly what we do.
Michael Roessle…: I’m just not letting stuff sit around the house where we are. And you taught me about shoes today. With Mira at the hospital, the droplets fall. So the floor and the shoes, for her especially coming home from there, don’t want to come in the house. We just went for a walk outside of the neighborhood, that’s not the same environment as a hospital. But we spritzed down the bottom of our shoes when we got to the door, and we spritzed down the bottom of the shoes, took the shoes off and just set them over there.
Michael Roessle…: But with her, with the hospital shoes now, we’re going to just leave them outside. Spray them, but leave them outside. She is going straight to the laundry, getting rid of the scrubs. Right to the shower, cleaning, washing. This goes backward to most of the things we ever have taught as general practices about being dirty and playing in the dirt and not worrying about washing things. So this is a conversation I thought I’d never be having with you.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, which is crazy, but we have to do it. That’s how important and serious this is, is that when I start buying a bunch of Clorox wipes for my house, then you know it’s serious.
Michael Roessle…: We talked about packages. Someone mentioned a UV light wand, do you know the effectiveness of that?
Kiran Krishnan: Yes, I’ve looked at some of the research on it. Now, there is no research yet on the COVID-19 and UV. The sun’s UV ray will kill viruses, it basically sterilizes most viruses. There are some capsid viruses, those are the ones with the protein coat, that can survive in sun’s UV. Now the sun’s UV has many different types of UV radiation, there’s far, there’s near, there’s UVA, UVB. Many of the UV lights don’t have enough diversity in the UV spectrum in order to kill off every virus.
Kiran Krishnan: There’s some studies I saw where something like a near range UVA may be more effective. But again, it hasn’t been tested yet, so I wouldn’t count on it. If you have it as an extra thing, there’s no harm in that. But don’t use that as your only means of cleaning stuff off. With this, just be sure to use things that we know will impact it, we can’t take guesses.
Michael Roessle…: Someone’s mentioning saunas, infrared saunas. We’re fortunate enough that we have an infrared sauna and Mira goes in there when she gets home. As I did see a study come out yesterday or the day before, maybe the day before that. That 15 minutes, 130 degrees had a significant impact on the number of virus. Corona viruses as a type of virus are not very heat friendly, they’re not very resilient in heat.
Michael Roessle…: So if you do have something like that, probably a really good idea. My question around that and heat in general is once someone is sick, there’s fever as part of this. On and on-off, low-high temperature fever. I don’t know about artificially increasing one’s body temperature with this infection and I’m not going to make a recommendation one way or another on that because we simply don’t know. But as far as this particular virus and heat, it does not like heat.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. Hence, your body has that defense mechanism, so the fever is generated by your own immune system as a way of slowing down the replication of the virus. Because one of the things that occurs is the heat denatures the viruses RNA, it denatures the outer coating of the virus, so the virus is very susceptible to heat. One of the recommendations that I’ve been reading, and this is not a recommendation we’re giving you if you have an infection, talk to your doctor about this. One of the recommendations is not to try to bring down the fever in any significant way. Of course, there are fevers that are really problematic-
Michael Roessle…: If you’re above 103, 104, then seek medical advice. We’re not [crosstalk 00:40:28].
Kiran Krishnan: It’s 101 and 102, and for the most part you can deal with it. That’s your body’s way of killing off the virus and it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Now, just to remain healthy because a lot of this is really about trying to up our resilience, right, should we come in contact with this virus. Or, the other thing is, aside from this virus, we’re still in the cold and flu season so we still have these other viruses to deal with. And the last thing we need is to get a cold and freak out because we think we have COVID-19. And then have to go out to go get tested and you’re continuing to expose yourself. So the more healthy you can stay and the less symptomatic you can be, this is probably better off for you.
Kiran Krishnan: A lot of this also just applies to remaining healthy and reducing your risk of other things, but warming your body is a good defense mechanism in general. I do it with the sauna, and again, I’m fortunate to have a nice foldable little infrared sauna. But you can do it with exercise, upping your body temperatures just from moderate exercise and then hopping in a hot shower. Again, 10 to 15 minutes of just elevating the body temperature a little bit has a positive impact. It also releases something called heat shock proteins. Heat shock proteins have really strong repair capability for the body, and up regulates the immune system as well. And in fact, lots of bacteria in your gut can release heat shock protein in response to heating. So this is why drinking warm tea can help, eating warm food can help. All of those things can really help with kind of stimulating some of this heat response.
Michael Roessle…: This has all been awesome. We’ve talked to a lot more about cleaning and sterilizing and things like that than I’d anticipated, but this is all really good information that is practical that people need. Because, this is really the front line of this thing is slowing the spread down. And so, that is important. Obviously, the hand-washing and scrubbing 30 minutes … 30 seconds I mean, not 30 minutes, your hands will fall off, but 30 seconds. And the hand-washing when you get home from anywhere, when you’re out be more mindful about touching things, if you have to go out. Here, we can’t even really go … we can go to the grocery store, but I’m really careful with that. I do wear a mask when I go to the store now, but more to protect other things from me, and to protect me from other things at this point. I’m operating as if I’m a contagious.
Kiran Krishnan: Again, you don’t know if you’re a carrier, right? And if you are a carrier, you could transmit it to someone if you’re not covering yourself.
Michael Roessle…: I traveled, I had four flights two and a half weeks ago, and a week before I’ve really started studying this and I haven’t felt normal since then. I’ve had some phlegmy stuff, some sinus stuff, some weird lung things, and I don’t know. Plus, she’s at the hospital, so I’m operating as if I’m protecting other people from me. But I do want to get into a little bit the … Nico wants to join. We don’t need that, thank you. The physiology a little bit of the immune response.
Michael Roessle…: Because what we’re seeing here, some people’s bodies are mounting this really dangerous level immune response to the virus that’s actually causing a ton of the damage. And other people that doesn’t seem to happen as much. But can you just explain a little bit the physiology of what that is? I know immune physiology is not able to be explained in a few minutes, but what we’re really seeing is a lot of these people with this really severe, dangerous, critical, fatal situations, it’s a lot has to do with the immune response itself, where in some people it doesn’t do that.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, that’s a really important question. Our immune systems all have a little bit of nuance to them, everyone’s immune system functions slightly different. People who tend to have what we would call over reactive immune systems to begin with, so these are people whose immune systems are constantly battling and reacting to things that it shouldn’t be. Like allergens, and food compounds, and your own tissue in the case of autoimmune conditions. Immune systems like that tend to have this really strong cytokine response to lots of stuff. And part of that is because it has lost immune tolerance, right? The tolerance aspect of it is lost so the immune system is just overtly active, responding to virtually everything the body sees.
Kiran Krishnan: Now you’ve got this kind of heightened immune response and that heightened immune response goes haywire when you do have a real pathogen that is replicating and damaging tissue. So then you get something called a cytokine storm. Think about your immune system as a response team to a bug flying around, right? So you’ve got this bug containment unit and then a bug enters your building, which is your body, and it’s actually a little, it’s a mosquito. And then you’ve got a couple of the personnel that you can send with little flyswatters that know how to find the mosquito and swat it and kill it off. That’s a normal kind of immune response where your body judges what this is and how severe of a response it needs to have, and then it responds adequately for that threat.
Kiran Krishnan: And then you have people whose immune responses are they see a mosquito, and then they’re sending in a group that uses a blowtorch to kill off the mosquitoes. That’s the analogy to keep in mind. So people’s immune systems who tend to be very reactive to things in general tend to overreact to this as well, and it creates something called a cytokine storm, which actually leads to more tissue damage, more organ damage and all that, than the virus itself. So it’s your own immune system that overreacts and causes too much of an inflammatory response that creates inflammation throughout the system. And so for those people in particular, there are now some cases being published and shared where certain immunosuppressants seems to work well for those people.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, auto-immune drugs, plaquenil. And for the secondary immune response, which is the one that involves antibodies, that’s much more precise, it doesn’t cause as much damage, it’s safer. That’s when we build immunity. I guess a question I wanted to ask you that I thought of, because I know just enough to be dangerous but not enough to know answers. Say they find these drugs, right, whether it’s this combination of the Fluoroquinolones, which has its own litany of problems with that whole entire class of drugs. But there’s the one for Fluoroquinolones drug that I saw used with Azithromycin that had some very promising results, the malaria drugs.
Michael Roessle…: Then there’s Plaquenil, which is a drug that’s been talked about for Mira with autoimmunity, is commonly used with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus and things like that. Regardless of what the drugs are, if they find a drug concoction that gets rid of this infection rather quickly with people, will that then stopped their body from getting to that second phase of immune response with the antibodies and then the learned immunity to it and the … or would they still acquire that?
Kiran Krishnan: No, they should still acquire that. The reason for that is because this particular pathogen has a long latency period, right? Remember you wouldn’t-
Michael Roessle…: So that it’s happening the whole time?
Kiran Krishnan: It’s happening the whole time, yeah. So part of the latency period is this bug, fortunately for us, this is one of the silver linings right now, is that it’s not a very infectious or pathogenic virus, right? It’s a little bit of a weak virus when it really comes down to it. So it gets into your system and it takes the virus awhile to get itself to a point where it can actually cause symptoms that you feel. That’s why people can go 10 days, 12 days, 14 days being asymptomatic, having enough viral load where if you test them, you can actually find virus. So during that whole latency period, your immune system is seeing this, battling it, learning about the virus. And then by the end of that period, it’s already producing antibodies.
Kiran Krishnan: For someone whose immune system is working well, within about four or five days of encountering the virus, you should be producing antibodies against it. And then those antibodies become memory, it goes to your IgM type of B cells and then becomes longterm memory antibodies. So yeah, absolutely-
Michael Roessle…: Then you have cells that are literally, their whole existence, just going around your body and looking for that virus?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Michael Roessle…: When they see it, they say, “There it is. There it is. There it is.” And then something comes and kills it and it never is able to replicate. But it takes a while for that to build.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, there’s one step. The innate immune system is still intimately involved in that. Meaning when the virus first comes in, let’s say you’ve already been infected and you’ve got antibodies against it. When the virus first comes in again, if you get exposed a second time, the innate immune cells in particular, the macrophages and dendritic cells will still come, see the virus or see a cell that’s infected by the virus and eat it. And phagocetized it, that’s the word for it. And then it’ll pull out a portion of that virus, whether it’s the spike protein up top or a part of the viruses RNA, and it’ll present it on the surface of that macrophage.
Kiran Krishnan: That’s why they’re called antigen presenting cells. That presentation is what triggers that B cell that produces the antibody against the virus to go, “Oh, that thing is back. Let’s proliferate and release a whole bunch of antibodies to coat the system.” So anywhere the virus exists in the body, it’ll get neutralized by the antibodies and taken out. That’s the secondary response. In the first response, all you have is that innate immune system where the macrophages and dendritic cells are looking for it, they come and they try to eat it. And then you’ve got natural killer cells and cytotoxic T cells that are looking for cells that are infected by the virus and coming and killing it. The problem with that is those are nonspecific, so it’s just kind of killing stuff.
Michael Roessle…: I always describe it like a bar fight.
Kiran Krishnan: Totally, it’s just like a [inaudible] bar fight.
Michael Roessle…: It’s messy and things get damaged. The question, I guess, from a layperson’s point of view. Like mine here in this immunology level of conversation is, the people who are succumbing to this and their system is breaking down, and people who are getting really, really, sick and dying, is it that the virus is replicating faster than the response plus the damage caused by the response, and those things kind of mixed together?
Kiran Krishnan: It’s a mix of the two. Because when you take the lungs, for example, people who are very susceptible for this proliferating in the lungs, especially in the lower part of the lungs. The upper respiratory track doesn’t cause the type of danger, the pneumonia, that people are succumbing to. But when it moves down into the lower part of lung, that’s when the pneumonia can set in. So what’s happening there is the virus starts to infect the pneumocytes in the alveoli, the air sacs. And then part of the response to that is the body comes in and starts kind of thickening that tissue. That thickening is like fibrosis, it’s almost like scar tissue that’s being formed on those air sacs because the air sacs are damaged.
Kiran Krishnan: Eventually, the fibrosis and the scar tissue, and the thickening, is what shuts off those air sacs so now they can no longer fill with air. So now your lungs are scarred up and cannot actually function by bringing air in, and expanding, and filling those alveoli sacs with air. So ultimately what does kill the people from the respiratory side is the damage that’s being done to the repair … by the repair part of the mechanism. The virus is trying to just get in there and replicate, and hang out, but because it’s a new virus your immune system has not seen it. The response to it can be very aggressive by the immune system and a lot of times the longterm damage or what even makes you succumb to it is the response to the virus itself.
Michael Roessle…: That makes sense. I think maybe we should jump into questions, there’s quite a few. I have a hard stop in 25 minutes because I got to get Mira ready for work. I read today that people with blood Type A maybe more susceptible, is there any evidence or truth to this? Thank you. I read that in a pretty … it seems pretty legit study on that, that blood Type A for some reason were more susceptible than blood Type O. I didn’t see it compared to any other types or anything. Or that O was the least susceptible and A was the most. I don’t even know what blood type I am, I know very little about blood types or what that even means. But have you read that?
Kiran Krishnan: I did. I read that and it’s really interesting. I think more has to be discovered on that because there’s also correlation to A1c levels, right?
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:54:04]
Kiran Krishnan: Correlation to A1C levels, right? A1C levels change, glycation in the blood. It seems like those with higher glucose levels in the blood tend to be more susceptible. That’s one aspect of it, because a virus has some connection with the level of glucose in the blood itself. And then when you’re talking about blood type, you’re talking about the type of antigens that are on the red blood cells. And that may increase the susceptibility, if the virus has a capability of binding to antigens on certain types of blood. That is where that whole mechanism is going.
Kiran Krishnan: And what is interesting about that is we may be narrowing down better who are the most likely negative responders to this, right? If that’s the case, for example, we find that A blood type with an A1C of over 6.5 are the most risk people at having really severe outcomes. You could screen all those kinds of people and then really treat them prophylactically in some way. It’s an interesting area, but it still requires months of study.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, the information is coming fast, but it’s coming as fast as it can. [crosstalk] … painful learning process.
Kiran Krishnan: It is. And here’s the thing that’s really important to know, is that a lot of these physiological characteristics are not equivalent across cultures, right? We know with all kinds of cancer risks and all that, it changes from culture to culture. A lot of the data that we’re now getting is coming out of places like Korea and China, but they may only be applicable to that cultural population.
Kiran Krishnan: The data that we’re getting from Europe, for example, is a little bit different. The number of younger people that are severely affected in Europe is different than the number of younger people who are severely affected in Asia. There may be some cultural, physiological differences that change the overall effect. And we might see that in the U.S. The U.S. then the number of people that are affected, and the types of people, may be different than in other parts of the world. Again, because our physiology may be different.
Michael Roessle…: That makes sense. And not all researcher information coming out is applicable to all people.
Kiran Krishnan: No. And I would say for our purposes, right? For what we’re doing, for what most people here are listening, obviously if you have COVID-19 hopefully you’ve seen your doctor and you’ve gotten a regimen from your doctor itself. This is really for those of us that are just trying to stay safe and trying to become more resilient in this kind of trying time.
Kiran Krishnan: One of the things that that seems to be pretty clear is your health status matters, a lot, of how risky it is for you to get really severe adverse reactions to it. Everybody is susceptible to picking up the the infection. This is absolutely true. Whether you’re an infant or you’re 99 years old, you’re basically equally susceptible. And you will be [crosstalk 00:57:10].
Michael Roessle…: But what happens then won’t change.
Kiran Krishnan: Exactly. And you’re equally contagious. All of the young people that think, oh, this is an old person thing and I’m not really [crosstalk 00:03:18].
Michael Roessle…: And all those pictures of spring break beaches in Florida had me like wanting to bash my head.
Kiran Krishnan: Me too. I’m with you. And I’m just doing the math and going, oh my God, how many people are going to be impacted [crosstalk 00:00:57:31].
Michael Roessle…: Tens of thousands. Hundreds of thousands.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. Sitting there and partying together. Anyway, everybody’s susceptible to picking up this infection. Everybody is contagious when they do. Right? But how your body reacts to it seems to depend on your health status. And yes, you may have been, and are, dealing with a chronic illness so your health status is not where you want it, but one of the important things to note is we can do things right now to improve our health status, to make us a little more resilient. We have that opportunity. I’m sure we’ll talk about that as we go along too.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. I want to get to that at the end. I kind of want that to be the takeaway because that’s intimidating to some people to hear like, oh, if you’re unhealthy then you’re doomed. And yes, this is more dangerous for people with chronic health conditions. My dad is diabetic, [inaudible] mom is asthmatic. [inaudible] has autoimmune issues and she’s going to be on the front line. It’s scary. But there are things we can do that can acutely change variables in our favor. We’ll talk about that in a few minutes.
Michael Roessle…: ACE inhibitors, you mentioned ACE two receptors. ACE inhibitors seem to be pretty problematic. I’m not going to tell anyone not to take their medications. I would tell you to talk to your doctor. There is a lot of evidence now in that they probably have seen, I would hope, or can see, or that you could show them, related to more severe outcomes for people on ACE inhibitor medications.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. And the reason for that, so people can understand, because we’ve just been talking about how the ACE receptor is a binding site for the virus and that it helps get in the cell, if you inhibit that then it should help. Well, the problem is ACE inhibitor drugs are ACE 1 inhibitors. The ACE 1 receptor. And when you inhibit the ACE 1 receptor you actually increase ACE 2, which is how ACE inhibitors help repair damage. Because remember, ACE 2 is good for your system, it repairs things. But you increase the expression of ACE 2, it gives the virus more binding sites. But again, talk to your doctor about that. Don’t stop your ACE inhibitor because you could have other issues.
Michael Roessle…: What about using ozone water, ozone air generator to clean food? I’m treating any deliveries that come into my house with an industrial ozone generator that I already had.
Michael Roessle…: I’m actually probably acquiring an ozone generator myself for treatment purposes. But the gas would kill anything. But like I said before, you don’t want to be anywhere near that. If you use that, use it in a really safe way. I don’t know enough about ozone water to know what that does or not.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. The problem with the ozone water, I’ve seen very mixed results of how stable the ozone is in water. Remember, ozone is O3, and water is H2O and it’s a polar molecule. O3 and H20, when you mix it can break up into either more water molecules or just releasing 02. This to me, is there’s a lot of uncertainty and so I wouldn’t say, hey, you can hang your hat on cleaning your stuff with ozone water and just eating salads all day. I would say, that you’re better off just kind of … Just cook all your produce.
Michael Roessle…: And fruit, we’re doing citrus, but that’s peeled. And we’re doing it with clean hands. And if we do apples or pears we wash them. [crosstalk 01:01:13]. We wash them and let them sit for a few days before we eat them too because they’re not ripe at the store. And we’re not going to the store very often. We wash them and then …
Kiran Krishnan: And anything you can wash with soap will do even better than any of the chemicals because soap is one of the most powerful things against this kind of virus because
Michael Roessle…: You can wash apples and pears with soap?
Kiran Krishnan: Totally. Yeah. That’s how we’re doing. I’m washing our apples with dishwasher soap. Just the dishwasher soap that we wash dishes with. You soap it up and we use a thing and scrub it, and then rinse it off, and let it sit until it dries. The thing is, this is again, an envelope virus, which is a fatty acid envelope. And so with that soap as a surfactant will strip apart the fatty acid envelope so that you end up breaking up the virus envelope. And then that just kills and neutralizes the virus in general.
Michael Roessle…: May have already addressed this. Is there more susceptibility for people with autoimmune conditions and if so, are there extra precautions to take? Yes. As much as I hate for that to be the answer, yes. As far as extra precautions, that’s the lines I don’t know. It’s very individual. It’s based on the condition. It’s based on the medications. It’s based on your exposures. It’s based on a whole bunch of factors. I don’t know how I can safely, or legally, or responsibly answer that other than being as careful as one possibly can. Do you have anything to add to that?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. I would say this, a lot of people watching who are pretty health conscious individuals have their own things that they use that are tried and true for them during the regular cold and flu season. Whether you get a cold or you get a flu, there are vitamins that you take. There are mushroom extracts or probiotics, whatever they may be, that seems to help your system function better. All of those things are on the table. None of those are treatment for COVID-19, none of those are preventative for COVID-19, none of that has been tested or shown, but there’s still benefit to keeping yourself healthy. I would say anything that you’ve used in the past that you feel has been good for your system seems to be okay.
Kiran Krishnan: Elderberry, there’s some controversial information that elderberry makes the disease pathology worse. It’s a little on the fence for me. I haven’t seen it to be super convincing yet, but just in case, just stay away from the elderberry I guess. But everything else, like what I’m doing, I’m doing everything I normally do because I travel so much and I’m exposed to viruses, and all that, constantly. Kids are in school during the flu season so they’re getting exposed like crazy. All the stuff that we normally do. We do a couple of different types of vitamin C. We do vitamin D at this time of year, and I’m actually increasing my intake of vitamin D. To keep lungs at a healthier level I use a lot of beta carotene at this time of year. I use the immunoglobulins, probiotics. These are the things I normally do just to keep my system functioning good and healthy. All those things are things you should just continue to do.
Kiran Krishnan: But we also can reduce our inflammatory response by improving our diet in the short term. And hopefully those improvements will support in the longterm. That’s one of the things I’m focusing on as well because now I’m home, when I travel as much as I do I eat 90% of my meals out. And a lot of those meals, my choices are limited, and a lot of times I’m eating what I know to be inflammatory foods. And I try to kind of repair what happens after that. But this is a good time, if many of you are home, to really focus on a more holistic whole food diet and cleaning up your diet. And trying to get as many plant based materials into your system versus really going really high on animal based proteins and so on. Just kind of getting a diversity, improving your plant base intake, anti-inflammatory foods are always protective, just those things. Those things alone, just improving your health condition is a positive thing.
Michael Roessle…: Having a history of smoking but quit 10 years ago. Could this still be an issue if you get the virus? I would say probably.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. The American Heart Association has done some studies on … Because we know that smoking is a significant risk factor in heart disease, right? American Heart Association has done some studies to say, okay, how many years after smoking does that risk start to really diminish? Some of the studies that they’ve done have shown that within two years of quitting smoking the risk factor that smoking presents can be reduced significantly.
Kiran Krishnan: It’s awesome that you quit smoking 10 years ago and you’re way better off having done that than if you’ve smoked recently. Keep that in mind. That’s a positive thing. I would say that to keep your lungs healthy, one of the things I do is use beta carotene. Beta carotene has a good amount of studies on it showing for people who are asthmatic, who have hyperactive airways, that beta carotene can really reduce some of the responses of hyperactive airway in your lungs. Just add that in, it’s a normal vitamin that you can get, it’s not going to do any harm. And so it’s just an additional support.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, I fall into that category. When I was younger I smoked as well and so I know that my lungs are not ideal for this as well. And I wish my answers to all these questions could be, no, it doesn’t matter and you’ll be fine.
Kiran Krishnan: Right.
Michael Roessle…: This is really going to highlight the unhealthy level in our population in a way that’s really scary. And I’m not going to sugar coat things. With clinical trials on high dose ascorbic acid via IV being conducted in China and with the Shenzhen government actually recommending ascorbic acid as a COVID-19 treatment protocol, do you have any thoughts on whether this reality might penetrate the conventional medical bias/obstacles to considering this modality? Do you know anyone prominent in the medical community who even recognizes the possibilities of ascorbic acid therapy? No.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, I would say absolutely not. Because there’s actually really good data on high dose ascorbic acid through IV and certain types of cancers and so on, but all of those centers that even offer that have been just targeted and destroyed by the FDA. Our society, our medical institute is just not going to go there.
Michael Roessle…: I’m actually looking at securing some IV bags of vitamin C for [inaudible 00:01:08:25]. And doctors in your area who offer that, talk to them.
Kiran Krishnan: Totally, because [inaudible] cocktails and all that are available, readily, in California.
Michael Roessle…: [crosstalk 00:14:37]. And doctors can stay open. I know several here that said they will be treating patients who are looking for that. There’s a shortage on IV vitamin C right now within the naturopathic community because so many people ordered it, but they will be making production … A lot of doctors have it. I would ask around.
Michael Roessle…: I can’t say that as something you should do. The evidence is pretty solid. I’ve seen the papers. It’s pretty solid and ascorbic acid is just one form of vitamin C, we’re doing some liposomal vitamin C and we have some … What is that? The pure synergy, the food based one we have mixed, [inaudible] like that’s a mixed ascorbic acid type of vitamin C, and the IVs in case somebody’s sick. There’s definitely legitimate evidence there. I wouldn’t hold your breath for it to come to your local [crosstalk 00:01:09:31].
Kiran Krishnan: No, I would say this almost no chance of it, especially because there are drug trials going on and the system is going to always lean towards a drug. And something as cheap and simple as IV vitamin C’s not going to get the light of day. But keep in mind that typically what’s available in IV vitamin C form, in the U.S., the vitamin C content is relatively low. From what I last got, I got my kind of [inaudible] cocktail for the first time ever a few weeks ago, and I think she said in that bag was 250 milligrams, which is really nothing. The IV vitamin C pushes that they’re doing I think are more six grams or something like that.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, they’re really high. People are asking … I can’t give you any advice about medications and neither can Kiran. I really wish that we could, but I’m not qualified to. And he’s not a doctor. And if you have concerns and you’ve read something around a certain medication that you’re taking, or anything like that, I would gather the articles and send them to your doctor. [inaudible] doctor has been very responsive. We have a rheumatologist that she works with, that’s her conventional doctor. We have a team of functional people that we talk to, but her rheumatologists has been very responsive to emails through this whole thing, very quickly. And doctors are working right now. Doctors are not closed.
Kiran Krishnan: Well, and here’s the thing, the telemedicine world is blowing up right now. Just Google telemedicine. There are three or four really big companies that are telemedicine companies. They’re the ideal ones to get on the phone with and you can talk and ask for a COVID-19 specialist. And they will talk you through all your medications and all the potential issues, or non issues. In general, for the most part, I’m not hearing about lots of medication issues. There are a few specific things, but for the most part, don’t make any changes to your medication. Get on the phone with the doctor.
Michael Roessle…: Talk to somebody who’s responsible for your care. You guys have a standard antibiotic protocol, right? For what you recommend to your practitioners. We can share that. Somebody asks, I got put on four days antibiotic for bronchitis. This is totally unrelated, but it says, what should my MegaSpore protocol be? Do you guys have, with your battery of things, what is that? I can type it [crosstalk 00:18:01].
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, the simplest, what we do is, it’s two MegaSpore day in the morning, or with your first meal, and then afternoon two RestoreFlora, and two [inaudible] in the evenings. You’re taking six caps throughout the day, two at a time with three different meals. And you do it for about three times longer than the antibiotic course was. It was a seven day course, do it for three weeks.
Michael Roessle…: Okay. I typed that in here. [inaudible 00:18:30], I sent that over there so hopefully you get that. That is not a COVID-19 prescription that’s specific to somebody with an antibiotic, taking an antibiotic.
Kiran Krishnan: It’s just to help your gut.
Michael Roessle…: These are a couple of specific to your products, which having you on here is helpful, if you can’t tolerate multiple supplements right now, what would you suggest your immunity more important? MegaSpore biotic or IGG? Personally, I would do the MegaSpore.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, it’s really unfortunate if you had to choose between MegaSpore and IGG because both of them play different roles and help your system in different ways. I would say yes, I would go with the MegaSpore then if you could only choose one of those two. But I remember, with the IGG, you can also go lower dose and you can go lower dose of both, if you wish. If that helps a tolerance issue.
Kiran Krishnan: You can even switch them off day after day. You can do MegaSpore every other day and in between those do IGG. All of those things are still open. But if you had to just choose one I would go with the MegaSpore.
Michael Roessle…: Just on a personal note, we have some IGG here and [inaudible] going to work and eating at work, I’m just sending her four of them with her work meal, to have some extra antigen situation there. What else would you recommend for me for her to do with that?
Kiran Krishnan: During the meal?
Michael Roessle…: Just in general with Mega IGG specific, I didn’t really know how it …
Kiran Krishnan: She should take four caps before bed too. That seems to be important, like as one of the last things that she consumes before bed. That’ll be really important as well.
Kiran Krishnan: The IGG actually has really cool viral challenge studies on it. Again, not COVID-19 virus, but other viruses. It shows that it can help support the parts of the body that deal with viral infections. Again, it’s just another add on thing to improve and make you a little more resilient. But one of the good ways of doing that is doing four caps before bed.
Michael Roessle…: Okay. She takes an acetyl cystine, then she takes [inaudible 00:20:46], then would the [inaudible] enzyme have a problem with that?
Kiran Krishnan: No.
Michael Roessle…: Okay. Because some proteolytic enzymes break down some things in a way that you don’t want to take them together. And then she’s doing the micro balance and olive leaf extract at night.
Michael Roessle…: A turning point for her, side note, with her hand pain situation that we couldn’t get under control was actually antifungals because there’s conflicting evidence on mold toxicity, whether or not mold can actually grow lungs in the body itself and then produce the mycotoxins from inside, versus being exposed to them outside. And when she threw in the heavy anti-fungals it started to …
Kiran Krishnan: Really alleviate it. Right?
Michael Roessle…: It’s helping. It’s been a long five months, but she’s doing pretty good. Thank you for that. Anything relevant to this with non-secretors? McAvoy talked about that in his video too. For those who want to see that … He didn’t talk about it a lot, he just mentioned it. But check that video out, came up yesterday or the day before. What’s your opinion on that?
Kiran Krishnan: Non-secretors always have a little bit of a disadvantage because just the gut lining and all that is just not up to snuff compared to secretors. And as involved as the gut is in this particular case, which we still don’t have a whole lot of information as to how the gut may be involved in it, we do know from the American Journal of Gastroenterology study that just came out, that I think it’s 53% of individuals present first with gut symptoms, when it comes to COVID-19, so the gut clearly has some impact here. Non-secretors would probably be a little bit more disadvantaged, that would be the hypothetical guess.
Kiran Krishnan: What do you do about it? I would do everything that you do as a non-secretor to improve your gut function. Whether it’s taking more resistant starches, only go saccharides or whatever they may be, there’s nothing additional you would do outside of what you’re already doing.
Michael Roessle…: This looks like someone who runs a farm, can someone hand milking cows pass it to clients via raw milk? No signs or symptoms now, any extra precautions for milker or natural farm?
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, anything you’re going to consume in your system, if you’re going to drink milk, I would heat it up, just heat it up. We used to do that in India. When I lived in India, we’d get milked by the guy bringing the cow to the house and milk it. And then we would actually boil the milk because, again, that’s non pasteurized at that point. Just to be overly cautious, I would just [crosstalk 01:17:38].
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. I’m a big raw milk proponent, but right now … People think it’s only sneezing and coughing. There are droplets in breath.
Kiran Krishnan: Totally. Yeah.
Michael Roessle…: And so people are like, this isn’t airborne. Well, it’s airborne in a general vicinity of someone’s face, for a limited time, until it’s not. It’s not airborne like, floats around on the air and goes everywhere like anthrax or some other highly contagious … That would be exponentially worse if that were the case. But in close quarters with something like that it would be absolutely possible for the person doing the milking to contaminate the milk, in my opinion.
Kiran Krishnan: No, it’s breathing, just talking and breathing releases enough upper respiratory droplets that it puts it in the air. And in fact, the most recent Stanford study showed that those kind of droplets, which actually just come from talking and breathing, can last in the air for up to three hours, under ideal laboratory conditions. Humidity and airflow, and all that, can change that quite a bit. But yeah, absolutely, if that cows utter is within vicinity to the person milking it, that could be falling into the milk and settling down in the milk. And then of course the milk is kept cold, it’s a really good way to preserve the virus. If you’re getting milk like that, that is unpasteurized from the cow, I would heat it up.
Michael Roessle…: How long does this virus last on clothing? Hair? Et cetera? I’ve seen up to 72 hours on solid surfaces like steel and plastic, and things like that. More like 24 to 48 on other surfaces. Shorter on some, like copper’s only a few hours because it kills things. But I would just wash anything that comes … When she comes home from work she throws the clothes right in the washing machine and gets in the shower.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, totally. I think there’s enough evidence now that we know that it can last in clothing for a few hours. Typically, absorbent material like cottons and all that, viruses don’t do very well on those materials. But you could still be picking it up and it doesn’t take a whole lot of it to really cause an infection. And not only is the washing part of the clothing important, the dryer is where a lot of the disruption happens as well. You want to dry it on high heat.
Michael Roessle…: Good info. How reliable is testing? I’ve heard about false positives and false negatives. Is the testing based on solid science yet? Are we not there?
Michael Roessle…: We’re not there with 100% accurate testing. And I hate to say this, in a functional medicine circle, we’re not there with a 100% accurate testing on anything.
Kiran Krishnan: Anything.
Michael Roessle…: And that being said, I’ve seen a lot of narratives being pushed that the testing is all bullshit and that nobody knows anything, and whatever. If that were the case, if the testing was totally errant and didn’t work at all, the countries where there’s widespread testing and selective quarantine based on those positive test results that have now gotten the infection almost completely under control, that would not work.
Kiran Krishnan: Right.
Michael Roessle…: And so that’s anecdotal, but that’s proof. That’s visual proof to me that widespread testing and selective quarantine, based on the current tests, can work.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. And here’s the thing about the test, it’s a type of PCR test. The technology …
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:21:04]
Kiran Krishnan: It’s a type of PCR test. So the technology that the test is based on is really old and well known technology. So the good thing is, it’s not like new technology that they’ve never run. And because they know the genetic profile of this virus, they’ve got really good probes in order to utilize, in order to do the testing itself. Now, the part of the testing that’s difficult is the types of reagents, and the workflow and how you sample and all of those kinds of things need to be tweaked. But I would say that you’ve got a bigger chance of having a false negative than you do a false positive, because the test, it’s a PCR test, you’ve got a lot more specificity for the very genetic material of the virus itself. And so, you’ll likely not get a false positive, if the test is positive it’s 99.99% sure you probably have it. If the test is negative, but you still have symptoms, then there’s a likelihood that you could have missed, the sampling part could have been erroneous or something like that.
Kiran Krishnan: So, we know that the original CBC test had a lot of issues to it. But that’s not a high throughput test, that was a very laborious kind of test. It was kind of a fumbled, thrown together test. Now, industry like [Roche] has come out with a really streamlined high throughput test. That one’s going to be far more accurate.
Michael Roessle…: Somebody just commented that Korea is using antibody antigen testing, supposedly more accurate than the PCR test the US is using.
Kiran Krishnan: So, here’s what they did in Korea; the moment they had the very first case, and I think even a little bit before that, the government gathered five of the top biotech companies and charged them all with developing a test for this, even before it started to spread in the country. And they came up with PCR tests, they came up with ELISA tests, which is what the antibody tests are. And then, the Korean FBA approved two of those tests immediately. After one week. It took them one week to develop the test and go through the regulatory approval and get it approved. And then, they sent it out there in mass. And they were using both tests.
Kiran Krishnan: Now, they’ve done so much testing that they can refine and figure out which one works better. And because again, depending on what goes on with your body, some of those tests, the sampling part of it is a little more sensitive than others. And so, we can do that. We’ve got the brains to do that, we’ve got the capability. We just need the impetus from the leadership.
Michael Roessle…: I think that was the same week that our leadership was on TV calling this a hoax.
Kiran Krishnan: A hoax, mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s exactly-
Michael Roessle…: I don’t want to go down that road, because I’m just too pissed off about it. Good question, will you guys get the vaccine when it comes out? I anticipate that being akin to a flu shot. Because of the type of virus this is, and that there’s different forms and I don’t know that this… I’m not an immunologist. I can’t answer that right now. I have no idea what it’ll look like, I have no idea what the effectiveness is, I have no idea what the other ingredients in it would be. I have no idea. I don’t get flu shots, and there’s actually some evidence I’ve seen that people with flu shots are seeing more severe reactions to this virus. I haven’t seen that in a published medical journal, it’s just some things that I’ve seen. So I can’t really answer that. I don’t get others and I don’t get flu shots.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. So my thought on it, I don’t get flu shots either. The flu shots don’t tend to be very effective. So, the CDC actually puts out every year something called The Effective Rate of the Flu Shot. And so far, this year’s flu shot for people between the ages of 18 and 49, is only about 20% effective and for the H1N1 strain, the influenza H1N1 strain that’s going around this year, it’s less than 5% effective. Right? So, to me, that doesn’t outweigh the risk of the flu shot. So I don’t get flu shots either. Again, that’s your own personal decision that you make with you and your doctor. We’re not recommending either way.
Kiran Krishnan: Looking at the type of vaccine that they’re developing for COVID-19, I would lean more towards potentially getting it. Depending on his they finish the vaccine. Let me explain that a little bit. The way they are looking at creating a vaccine to COVID-19 is to a portion of the COVID-19 RNA, that expressed the spike protein. Right? So that’s an interesting approach to it, because what the vaccine will do is it’ll actually create a replication of the viral spike protein, in your own cells, so that your body can then detect that this replication is happening and built immunity against it. Now, the flu vaccines typically are attenuated flu viruses. The problem is, the flu will just keep changing what it looks like on the outside, which is the target of the vaccine. And so, every year it fluctuates and then they’re also trying to guess which flu strain is going to be prominent in the next season, because they create the vaccine before the season starts. Right? So they’ve got a shot at getting the guessing right, or getting the guessing wrong. So, it’s a bit of a different thing.
Kiran Krishnan: The COVID-19 strain that is running through the US seems to be very, very similar, pretty much identical to what started in Wuhan, China. So far, it hasn’t changed that much. If that’s the case, and if they make an RNA vaccine against that particular strain, I may lean towards getting it just to provide my system with some degree of immune response to this type of virus. But again, it’ll depend on what they put in it as well, that’s part of the other problem. They’re going to put some sort of thimerosal or mercury in it, then we’ve got a whole other problem.
Michael Roessle…: And that’s not a reality for at least a year, anyway. It will take a long time to develop something like that and to test it and everything else.
Kiran Krishnan: So, treatment for it will come before a vaccine will come. You know, the drug trials are already going on. And there are some promising drugs for those people that are going to have severe reactions. I think the biggest promise here, is that the large majority of us, if we get exposed to it, will be able to deal with it at home. And then, hopefully have some immunity against it. To some degree, herd immunity with everybody. And then, those that have more severe reactions can get effective treatment so they don’t have to be in the hospital for too long. So that may be the way this whole thing shakes out.
Michael Roessle…: That makes sense. The last couple I wanted to get to, I’m going to try to lump it into one. So somebody mentioned, “I’ve always heard that elderberries antiviral can cure [inaudible] with elderberry. Does he have any references on this?” Elderberry is antiviral. It also spikes certain functions in the immune system that can be very helpful, and this is my understanding, in preventing you from getting infections, or becoming infected. But that once infected with this specific virus, this is not specific to elderberry, but that immune response that is potentially spiked significantly with things like elderberry, you don’t want to be significantly spiked if you’re one of those people who is infected, who is seeing this immune response, as it could be like putting gasoline on a fire. Is that sort of accurate on your understanding of it?
Kiran Krishnan: Totally. For people, to help understand that, remember the analogy that I made about if you have an immune guard and your immune guard has the capability of looking at the threat and then addressing the threat with a appropriate action, meaning it’s a mosquito and you’re going to go use a little swatter and kill the mosquito, versus it’s a mosquito, I’m going to use a blowtorch against it. If you are of that blowtorch confirmation, then the use of elderberry, this is what the reporting says, the use of elderberry can amplify that blowtorch response. And that may create more problems of its own.
Kiran Krishnan: Now, to me, I’ve looked at this to some degree, this is not a big trial. And so, it’s still questionable. But being something that’s questionable, I wouldn’t necessarily take the risk of it right now. I don’t know, for me personally or my kids or my wife, are they a blowtorch responder to this type of infection? We don’t know, we’ve never had this infection. So, because of that, we’re doing everything with an abundance of caution.
Michael Roessle…: That makes sense. Quick answer, andrographis is an alternative to elderberries, an antiviral. Andrographis is being recommended a lot in the circles that I run in. I did talk to a Chinese medicine doctor, Brodie Welch, there’s another video this week that we did. She’s brilliant. Andrographis was really effective for the SARS virus, and the MERS virus. From a Chinese medicine perspective alone, which is different than functional medicine a lot of the time, those were different presentations than this virus is presenting as a damp plague, a damp illness. And andrographis is a cold herb, and that the other ones were not damp, and that the cold was more effective for, from a Chinese medicine standpoint, a different presentation. Where she recommended some herbs that are more for damp presentation. So, it kind of depends. That’s why I’m getting all these questions, like conflicting information. Chris Masterjohn put out a thing and said that, “Concerned that vitamin C could increase interferon which in SARS is a trigger for the cytokine storm that causes inflammatory damage in the lungs. As a result, I’m staying away from high dose vitamin C as a preventative.”
Michael Roessle…: I’ve been following a lot of people’s stuff in the last two weeks. I’ve been watching a lot from Dietrich Klinghardt, and The Sophia Institute. I’ve been watching some herbalists, I’ve been talking to Chinese medicine doctors. Brodie’s teachers were on the ground in Wuhan working with patients and providing case studies from a Chinese medicine perspective quite a bit. There’s a ton of data there, from a Chinese herbal standpoint. And those patients did much better than the ones without it. There’s a lot of conflicting information, because a reductionist viewpoint on, vitamin C might do this, which does this, which does this, which might do this, makes sense, logically. So, oh, don’t do that. But then, there is a lot of significant evidence coming out that high dose vitamin C and vitamin C in general is going to be helpful, and that patients are recovering faster and sooner, and more completely, with it. I personally cannot tell you which is right and which is wrong. Masterjohn’s PDF he put out, and for those who don’t know Chris Masterjohn, he’s a researcher, came from the paleo community originally. He’s a PhD, really bright guy. I don’t know him personally, I’ve often seen his work. It’s pretty impressive. He’s a super nerd. And Chris, if you ever hear this, I mean that in a compliment.
Michael Roessle…: His recommendations seem to be contradictory to almost everything that I’ve seen from everyone else. So, people have to make their own choices. I’m frustrated with that as well, because everybody wants these simple, “Here’s the answer to this.” And there is no, “Here’s the answer to this.” I sent out an email earlier this week with what we’re personally doing. I also posted that in our Facebook group. If you didn’t get that, shoot me an email at [email protected], I’m share that. But that is not what I’m telling you to do. That’s not what I’m prescribing to anyone else. People asking about how any of your products relate to this, we’re doing Megaspore, we’re going HU58 is mostly her, she’s taking that. I’m going the Megaspore, we have the IGG, we’re doing the microbalance. We drink the others pretty normally, the [inaudible] and the prebiotic, because of the integrity of the gut lining, that’s a source of inflammation and you’re saying we went to get a healthy lining, and you mentioned endothelium damage and things like that as something that this virus is able to find a more hospitable host with.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, and a couple of the things with the product in itself, we have to remember, obviously what we want is a robust and well functioning immune system to try to deal with this, and increase our resilience, really. And so, one of the aspects, or the biggest aspect of the immune system is in the gut, still. Right? So none of that has changed, despite the issue that we’re dealing with. So, having a health gut, having probiotics that can interact with the peyer’s patchers in the ileum, and up-regulate T cell and B cell proliferation, which is what happens in the ileum in the gut. All of those things are still good, all of those things are still important for you. The production of short-chain fatty acids becomes really important, because the dendritic cells and macrophages, these are the guys that are floating around, looking for messed up, infected cells and viruses and all these things that they protect you against. Those still require butyrate and short-chain fatty acids as their primary energy source. So that is still important in all of this.
Kiran Krishnan: So we can’t overlook things that we’ve been doing, or we’ve been trying to keep ourselves health and functioning, because at the end of the day, the healthier, the most robust and resilient your system is, the better off you’re going to be through this whole pandemic. You know? And to just respond to what Chris Masterjohn had said, and the cytokine storm and risks with that and all that, if you get to a point where the cytokine storm is a risk, you’re feeling pretty crappy.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, that’s not good at that point.
Kiran Krishnan: Right, it’s not good. You’re feeling pretty crappy, you’ve got the illness. Hopefully you’ve been tested and they know that for sure. At that point, work with your doctor, whoever you’re working with, and follow their instructions. Right? That’s the most important part. Pre all of that, you’re just trying to be healthy. Vitamin C is good for you, we know that, we’ve known that for centuries. There’s 100,000 studies on vitamin C and how it is good for you. So, until you become sick, none of this stuff really even falls in the realm, until that happens you are just trying to be as healthy as you can. So all the things that you’ve done and know to do to stay healthy, all of those are still on the table.
Kiran Krishnan: If we’re worried about what is going to trigger a cytokine storm and all that, that only becomes relevant once you are ill. And once you are ill, just be working with your doctor and figuring out the best approach.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah. We can’t be giving recommendations that apply to a dangerous, acute medical situation. This is all general healthy talk and prevention. That type of thing. Unfortunately, this is a very real situation and there are lines we can’t cross. We don’t know, I’m not a doctor, I’m not going to be your emergency room physician, I’m not going to be there with bottles of Megaspore being like, “Here, take this!” We’re trying to create an inhospitable host, and that’s what most of the conversations I’ve done so far with these videos have been.
Michael Roessle…: As far as what I’m doing, just a real quick run through. I have AEDK drops from Biotics Research, not crazy dosage. I have vitamin C, various forms. We’re doing mushrooms, reishi and cordyceps. For [Mira] cordyceps is pretty lung specific in support, reishi is a great all around immune modulator that I think could be great. I’m taking a more aggressive mushroom approach, but Mira with autoimmunity, some mushrooms can stimulate, like turkey tail’s questionable. Some of them can stimulate autoimmunity, so medicinal mushrooms for people without any autoimmunity I think are great. Reishi seems to be pretty powerful for anyone. We’re doing all these for cautions we talked about, about the cleaning, the sanitizing. I am pretty much on house arrest. I’ve been out maybe once this week, to the store, and I wear a mask when I go out, I’ve got to be leaving my shoes outside. We clean the mask, Mira goes to work. Unfortunately, her work is where this is. So, we’re doing that.
Michael Roessle…: We’re doing the Microbiome Labs products, we do take the Megaspore, HU58. The MegaMycoBalance is more for her mold issues right now. Although, propolis is a main ingredient in there, and propolis has a lot of pretty strong antiviral properties, has been talked about by Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt quite a bit. And so that’s something. We got a nebulizer, and we were going to do that anyway, but we got a nebulizer. We’re nebulizing the reduced glutathione, and the NAC, we’re looking into for that. That HOCL that was mentioned as a cleaner, that can actually be nebulized and diffused into the air, that can be helpful and Klinghardt uses that a lot with respiratory infections. We have the infrared sonar, fortunately. Doing a lot of tea, Brodie Welch recommended ginger, just straight up hot ginger tea, fresh ginger, a lot of fresh ginger, really helps with damp. Cinnamon, Dr. [Mia] mentioned cinnamon sticks in water. Watch Dr. Mia’s video series, I did a video with Dr. Mia and that will link to five videos she’s doing. She’s an herbalist and an MD, lots of at home things like pine needles can be boiled, and it makes a lot of vitamin C in the water, if you can’t access vitamin C.
Michael Roessle…: So she has tons of solutions on those videos. Look on our blog for the video with Dr. Mia. And then, we’re doing a little bit of liver detox support. We have some herbal botanicals around, we have andrographis, we have Chinese skullcap. There’s a couple of other ones. And then I did order some Chinese herbs from Brodie, so that’s kind of what we’re doing. And also, try to do anything you can to calm down your nervous system.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, I mean stress is going to lead to more leaky gut. Leaky gut dampens your system, and your immune response, so as much as you can, it’s a scary unknown time. But it really is important to try to kind of ground yourself and do some mindfulness. To quickly list what I’m doing, if people want to know; I am taking a couple of different vitamin Cs, so I do take somewhere around 3 to 4,000 milligrams a day. I’m using a, I think it’s a liposomal C from a company called LivOn, L-I-V-O-N. It’s a little squirt that you can to [crosstalk 01:40:34].
Michael Roessle…: We’ve had that too, it’s weird.
Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, it’s weird. I used to just do it directly, and I’m like, “Oh this does not taste good to do it directly.” But they showed me, I saw them at a show just a couple of weeks ago, the last show I’d been to. And they put a tiny amount of juice in a shot glass, and then put it in the juice, and then you do it as a shot and it’s perfectly fine. I’m also doing the glutathione, which I think is important. I’m doing about 8 to 10,000 IUs of vitamin D, with of course the vitamin K, which is important, K27. I am doing… I typically do three or four caps of Megaspore a day, so I’m doing the same, but I did add about two caps of HU58. I’m doing eight capsules of the IGG, which is important. I’m also doing betacarotene, just to keep the lungs in good healthy shape.
Kiran Krishnan: One of my favorite immune products is a product called EpiCor, E-P-I-C-O-R. It’s a fermented product, great studies on it in terms of the cold and flu season. And so, I use that all the time when I travel and I’m using that right now. A product from Bio-Botanical Research called Olivirex, which is an olive leaf extract. I’m using that as well, so that’s an additional thing. I’m doing the sonar every day, about 15 minutes each time. I’m trying to get some exercise in everyday now that I’m not traveling, so that’s really helping both the stress and [inaudible] situation. I wouldn’t necessarily… Like for me, I wouldn’t do any really high intensity training, high intensity training does bring down your immune system a little bit. I’m doing much more moderate stuff, some lifting, some resistance things to put the body under a little bit of stress.
Kiran Krishnan: And then, trying to kind of see the silver lining of some of this. For me, this is a big change because I’m not traveling all the time, so I’m getting to spend more time with my kids and that’s a big benefit, and there’s joy in that, that releases endorphins, it releases dopamine and serotonin. So I’m trying to use that as a silver lining to help with the psyche of where all of this is going. But I think the vast majority of us will be fine, and the very unfortunate thing is there are people that are going to be very negatively affected by this. And one of the things that Michael and I were talking about before we came on was, what are we doing in our local communities to help those that are going to be really affected by this, economically? And those are some of the really important things as a global community, we’ve got to come together and support each other.
Kiran Krishnan: But again, I want to just emphasize how important it is for you not to become a vector. Don’t be a reservoir, don’t become a vector for the virus. That’s the way it spread, it uses us to spread, and if we can control ourselves, we can stop the spread. And it’s not the virus itself, it’s not flying around through the air like a little drone and finding people and infecting it, we are the ones perpetuating its growth. And so, we can stop that if we just really calm our behavior. If you know anybody that is nonchalant about it, send them as much information as you can. We’ve been doing that, we’ve been sending friends of ours information that they’re not asking for, but we’re sending it to them, so they understand the gravity of the situation, right? Everybody plays, every single person plays an important role in this.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, I’ve been trying to put the fear without putting the panic, to try to trigger the action. So, yes, there will be a recording hopefully. Zoom’s been having some issues. So if not, I took a lot of notes, and will write up a review. But there should be a recording. So, I got to run, I got to get Mira ready for work. Maybe we’ll do this again, this is going to be…
Kiran Krishnan: I’ll be around.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah, we’re going to have time. And thanks for sharing everything you did, I learned a bunch of great stuff. I hope everybody else did too. Please stay home if you can, please be careful with the social distancing and the washing and the cleaning. Just those things alone are what we really need right now. Because the medical situation in other countries right now is like the stuff nightmares are made of. And we want to try to stop that from happening here.
Kiran Krishnan: Absolutely. We have plans, and we can do it, so.
Michael Roessle…: Yeah.
Kiran Krishnan: That’s the good news. So thank you guys.
Michael Roessle…: Thank you! All right, thanks Kiran. Bye.
PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [01:45:12]