Michael Roesslein:          All right, the recording is live. We are here. This is actually a first in a series of webinars we’re going to do monthly now here at Rebel Health Tribe called the Wellness Vault Spotlight. We’re going to feature product services, other offerings, things that we really like and that we’ve spent time to find the best of and try them out and get feedback and all of that to save everybody time to find all that stuff in one place on our site. Once a month, we’re going to bring somebody on to highlight one of these products or services or treatments or therapies or anything that we want to talk about and today to kick this off, we are talking ozone and I have my friend Micah here, the [Ozonaut]. I got to say, man, in the whole industry, you have the coolest nickname.

Micah Lowe:                      Well, I appreciate it.

Michael Roesslein:          Micah Lowe, thank you for joining us today and I’m excited. I often know more about the subject that we’re going to talk about on webinars than I do about ozone. I’m going to kind of be along with the audience in learning today, and that’s fun for me. Before we really get going, I’m curious, and I think others might be too on a little bit on how you got into ozone and becoming the Ozonaut and everything that you do around that because that’s a pretty unique title and job and work that you’re doing. Can you give us a little background on how you ended up there with that?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, well, I’m excited to be the first one in the vault of these products and that kind of stuff. It’s a pretty cool thing. Thanks for having me on. I guess it was just kind of like an unstoppable momentum in a way that kind of brings you to this place or whatever you want to call it. I started off pretty young wanting to get into the medical field like 12 or 13, and I thought I would go into medical missions and do Mercy Ships and that kind of stuff. That was kind of my vision long-term from a young age.

                                                Part of that process, my dad started integrative medicine as my brother was diagnosed with a terminal brain cancer and he did recently pass unfortunately, but he had a very… he lived way longer than they expected. When he was diagnosed or when they said it was going to be terminal, they were expecting a few months, ended up living 10 years longer than that. I think a large part of that was some of the alternative stuff that we were getting into. Anyway, I was working with my dad on something called ultraviolet blood irradiation. It was a pretty small operation and he got into that just by being a serial entrepreneur and there was a guy that was going over to Africa and doing some missions over there and was like, “Hey, we’re actually curing these infections that antibiotics can’t cure with this thing called ultraviolet blood irradiation.” And he says, “Well, that sounds like bogus, but I’ll look at it anyway.”

Michael Roesslein:          I’ve seeing one of those machines, it’s wild.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. It basically takes out some blood, like 60 CCS of blood and then you pass it through ultraviolet light, and what that does is that dismantles the bacteria and virus that is in the blood and then your body is able to take that and kind of recognizes it as a vaccine. It’s able to take those dismantled things and basically help to kill off the rest of the infection and then there’s some other things that it does in there. It’s fairly complicated. Michael Hamblin is kind of the top guy on that, but anyway, that got me [crosstalk]-

Michael Roesslein:          Maybe that’s another webinar.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. He’s out of Harvard and he’s kind of a part of our story. Going through UBI, I was helping my dad to create some of the equipment because obviously had to start to a clinic on a bogus treatment and see what it was about. We started selling equipment and I started talking with doctors and this was like 14, 15, 16, 17 and I just really started to talk to a bunch of doctors and started to go to school once I got into college and I kind of started to see the difference between the school and what I wanted to do long-term and kind of what this alternative and natural healthcare was.

                                                I saw it really clearly one time when I asked like, hey, type two diabetes… this was still in one of the pharmacists so I was actually working in a pharmacy too. Why do we just give them a lifetime of Metformin and just keep on titrating it up as they get older? Why don’t we make like a six month plan, make some lifestyle adjustments and say, “Hey, you have a six month runway on this drug. We’d like to get you off of type two diabetes as you’ve been recently diagnosed with it, and to see you get off of that.” She specifically said, “Well, we don’t have a drug that cures type two diabetes yet.”

                                                That’s kind of the mindset difference was, lifestyle versus the drugs which I’m sure all the people here are familiar with and are more about the lifestyle. Anyway, when I saw that difference and I was talking to these doctors, just all the clinical stories and the things that the doctors were saying about ozone therapy was really impressive to me. I started to look into it. I started to read about it and I was finding things like, oh, hey, this has a 70% success rate on treating herniated discs. You know what else has a 70% success rate? Surgery, which costs tens of thousands of dollars on a very invasive surgery into your spine, but you can take a little needle that’s an inch long, inject it right next to the disc. It doesn’t even have to go into the spine and there’s a 70% success rate of that treatment, which is about three to 500 bucks.

                                                I was like, wow, we can have something that’s really minimally invasive. That’s really inexpensive. Again, still, if it doesn’t work, you can still go to the surgery, but heck I would want to try a 300, $500 treatment-

Michael Roesslein:          And doesn’t require anesthesia or any of the other stuff that comes along with surgery.

Micah Lowe:                      No. I actually did sustain a pretty serious back injury and I’ve had a number of them. I broke my back and I have grade ii spondylolisthesis, which is basically a permanently slipped disc. Nothing can heal that, that’s known about today, but it’s really helped me quite considerably with just the pain pathways and all the different things. Anyway, when I was just reading all this stuff, I was like, wow there’s kind of like… I had kind of the red flags at the beginning because when you hear about something that is able to do a lot of stuff you’re kind of like, “Yeah, that just sounds like they’re kind of trying to sell it.”

                                                As I started to understand the ozone’s really fundamental action, I started to understand why it can be used in herniated discs. Why doctors are using it to treat Lyme disease, again, not a cure, but to help with some of the symptoms and help them get healthier. I started to understand it and get into it and I coupled up with a engineer local to me, and he was a really brilliant guy and we started to develop some machines, started to sell them, and that’s how I got into it. The Ozonaut thing, that was actually somebody else’s name. I went on a medical trip to El Salvador and they called me the Ozonaut and it kind of stuck and then I started to use it in emails and people remember it more than my name, so it’s pretty helpful.

Michael Roesslein:          It caught my attention at first, I have to admit. First off, I just want to give you condolences on your brother [crosstalk].

Micah Lowe:                      Thank you.

Michael Roesslein:          It sounds like it was probably a pretty long drawn out situation that was pretty rough for everyone. I just want to acknowledge that.

Micah Lowe:                      Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Michael Roesslein:          Being in this field, I’ve heard a lot of stories like that around various illnesses of, I was told two months and I’m here seven years later and a lot of the things that they’ve done, aren’t things that their doctor told them to do at first, unless they switched to integrative or functional medicine. The last interview I did was with Dr. Al Danenberg, who’s actually a periodontist that’s trained in functional medicine and he got diagnosed with multiple myeloma two years ago and was given three months to live. His last scan was cancer free.

Micah Lowe:                      Wow.

Michael Roesslein:          And multiple myeloma is a rough cancer too. Like that’s [inaudible] and it’s usually terminal. I’ve heard a lot of these miracle stories. I just try to pay attention to what it is that they’ve done and follow the breadcrumbs and see where those things are and when it’s something to bring to the audience, that’s what I do. With ozone, I’ve known about it for a while because we have a lot of people in our community with chronic hidden infection Lyme type things and it’s used for those but I never really explored it very much and then my wife developed mold toxicity autoimmunity like two to three years ago and there’s suspected Bartonella and other infections and it’s something so we started to look a little more into it and then when COVID kicked off… ozone does not cure COVID. If the FDA is watching my videos.

                                                When COVID kicked off we really just… and she’s an ER nurse, so she’s high exposure. We started to really just look at anything we could that we could put into the mix that might be helpful to keep her safe and healthy during a super high exposure all the time environment, and if it’s something that might also help her underlying conditions, great, so that’s when we got an ozone generator and have been using it since March. It just felt natural to bring it into the mix here as both of us feel pretty good with it. That’s my much shorter version of ozone.

Micah Lowe:                      Have you had a pretty positive experience with it so far?

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah, I mean, I feel pretty good most of the time so like I don’t have a lot to say other than I’ve definitely noticed I get like a pretty solid… it’s like drinking a couple cups of coffee without the jitters at each day in the morning. I feel like clear, cleaner energy type of feeling from it. I might have some positive skin effects, I think potentially but for her, we’re not really sure because we’re doing a lot, but she has turned a positive corner since we introduced it. We also introduced a couple other things around that so like I don’t want to give it full credit, but she definitely started to improve when we started to implement it.

                                                We’re doing like five days on, two days off right now with insufflations. We’ll talk about that in a little bit when we get into the specifics. Now there’s probably people sitting here saying cool stories guys. What the heck is ozone? What are you talking about? There might be some here who have a lot of experience but I’d like to just cover the basics at the beginning if there’s people who aren’t familiar with it. Ozone is like the stuff in the sky, right?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Ozone, it’s really a misunderstood thing, but if we just kind of boil it down to what it is, it’s just a gas, okay. Ozone is O3, which is three oxygen atoms that are combined up like this. Oxygen is O2, so it’s a close relationship from that, except it’s a bit different from oxygen because it’s super, super unstable. With that third oxygen atom on there it really wants to grab a hold of other materials and it really just wants to go back to oxygen. It’s super unstable and that actually gives it the beneficial properties that we want.

                                                A lot of people have heard about ozone either as a pollutant or the ozone layer or, and maybe some people even for use in car industry and hotels for sterilization and that kind of thing.

Michael Roesslein:          But they say don’t breath it.

Micah Lowe:                      Right, yeah. It’s actually really harmful to breathe. That’s kind of why it’s so misunderstood, is because when you go… You can go and find a ton of articles and everybody accepts this. Ozone is bad to breathe. I’m not up here saying at all that it’s good to breathe. In fact, I would say, never do that. It’s a bad thing to do. Because of that, because of the pollution and all the studies out there on how bad it is to breathe ozone, everybody assumes that it’s just across the board, ozone is bad, because we kind of have these ideas or these presumptions in our head that we’ve been told our whole life or just maybe not even giving much consideration, but it starts to become truth over time.

                                                It’s really quite a safe thing when it’s used in other applications, and the reason we can’t breathe it is because there’s not an antioxidant system within our lungs. Our lungs don’t have these antioxidants and ozone is a very strong oxidant. When you breathe it in, you’re actually directly interacting with the lung tissue and you’re oxidizing it or starting to pull it apart. Now, there doesn’t seem to be, unless you’re doing a lot every day, like you’re breathing in for eight hours a day or a relatively decent amount, or you were to get a very high dose directly into the lungs. There doesn’t really seem to be any long-term effects just to be breathing ozone here and there. But-

Michael Roesslein:          It doesn’t smell great and it doesn’t feel great. You wouldn’t hang out in it, I don’t think.

Micah Lowe:                      No. You would know like-

Michael Roesslein:          It has a very distinct smell.

Micah Lowe:                      It’s one of the most detectable molecules by smell. I think at like five parts per million you can actually smell it pretty strong [crosstalk]-

Michael Roesslein:          Really. That makes sense then because I’ve had like tiny bits seep out of the bag and the whole bathroom smells and I’m confused because I’m like, is the machine just spraying this out when it’s off? Or like what is going on? Because I didn’t think too much got out. It doesn’t take much to smell it.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, you can smell it. You have your machine on, you have everything plugged in, just by the nature of these machines, there’s what’s called a reactor where the ozone is actually made is very high voltage and the fan that is blowing air over that and even just some of the air that is blowing over it is converted into ozone, but this is a safe amount.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. I’ve never had it where it actually irritates me at all.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. I mean, OSHA has some standards on it and it wouldn’t even come close to that, but you can even smell it just from the ambient air blowing by the reactor, which is different from the ozone that’s being generated but, yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool. It’s a O3 molecule. You’re mentioning it as an oxidant. People are very familiar with antioxidants and taking antioxidants. We actually have a product in our retail shop that’s a molecular hydrogen, and hydrogen is a selective antioxidant. I guess this might be a little out of sequence, but you brought it up. Where would there be potential in an oxidant being beneficial for the body in some way?

Micah Lowe:                      No, that’s a really good question actually. Antioxidants in our system do a lot of different things. They do cell signaling, they mediate against oxidative stress, which is where you have too many free radicals, but you also need the free radicals so those aren’t all bad. Anyway, what ozone therapy does… say you were to go do ozone therapy this morning. You take the oxidant and you actually stimulate a small amount of oxidative stress.

                                                There’s a few different kinds of oxidative stress and this is when your body starts generating too many free radicals and actually starts to break down things that it shouldn’t break down. We don’t really want a lot of oxidative stress and it’s one of the leading causes of aging. However, if you take a small, mild, acute oxidative stress, you’re actually stimulating beneficial pathway. This is the same thing that fasting does and the exercise does. It stimulates this small, mild, acute version of mild oxidative stress and that activates what’s called the Nrf2 pathway.

                                                There’s a lot of things that are happening, but essentially what happens at the end of the day is you actually are increasing your antioxidants within your body. You’re not taking an antioxidant supplement, you’re taking an oxidant. The body recognizes that and creates an antioxidant response from your body’s own tissue, which is kind of cool. You’re actually getting an up regulation in oxidants and you’re getting better cell signaling. You’re getting a better redox state, so that’s why it can be used as an oxidant and it’s not conflicting with taking antioxidant supplements or anything like that.

Michael Roesslein:          It’s like a beneficial stress in a way, a little one to keep your… Your body responds to it in a positive way and so as long as it’s acute and small, those acute small stimulations of those systems is beneficial where as having it, like you wouldn’t want to do like 12 ozone treatments in an hour. It’s not like a continual thing. Like you wouldn’t want to continually going into the body, but these hits cause the body’s own systems to respond, so you’re not taking an antioxidant, the body’s creating them.

Micah Lowe:                      Essentially, yeah. We’re still discovering just how large that window is of how much we can do, because now they’re starting to do like really high doses of ozone and they’re still getting a good response. They’re still kind of trying to figure out what the upper limit of that is, but it’s really kind of fascinating to me because it’s… It’s kind of a principle that you see throughout life, right? That a small stress actually produces a better version of something.

Michael Roesslein:          Like hormesis, like cold therapy and like other types of stresses that we found cause beneficial responses. You wouldn’t want to go in an iced bath like logically. You get in there and you’re like, “Oh man, I got to get out of here.” But they found that it has positive… that kind of stress. Exercise is a stress.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. If I were to tell you, “Hey, you should go on a five mile run, it’ll start to rip your muscles up a little bit.” Does that sound good? No. But that stress actually your body comes back stronger from it. Or you as a business person, if you don’t come across challenges, you’re not going to improve. It’s just a principle you see in a lot of areas of life that small stress can actually make an improvement.

Michael Roesslein:          And the Nrf2 too, that comes up quite a bit in discussions I have with people we bring on because then stimulating the Nrf2 pathway anti-inflammatory stimulates lower inflammation, right?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. As I understand it, and it’s helping with healing and reparation within the body. It’s kind of a fundamental pathway so it’s able to do a lot of different things so people like it if they can tie their therapy back to the Nrf2 pathway.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool. Yeah. They mentioned that with the hydrogen as well. It’s funny, they have all these super complex formulas, people creative drugs and supplements and herbs and all these things, and the last two webinars I’ve done about any sort of like therapy or product have been hydrogen and oxygen and they are two of the most basic molecules on the planet in makeup. I don’t know a large portion of our bodies and then what the body uses so it’s just really funny. It’s like going back to the most basic, basic, basic, basic things, and people are surprised that it has an impact on our physiology but we literally need these things to be alive.

                                                Now, we’ve talked about not good to breathe. What are the ways that ozone can be either used or consumed? I don’t know the right word to use there, but getting it into the body to have an effect. What are the main ways that this is done?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. It’d probably be called like administration or something.

Michael Roesslein:          Administration, sure.

Micah Lowe:                      You know how I said, there’s no antioxidant system in the lungs? Well, there actually is an antioxidant system in most other parts of the body. We can use it on the skin. We can use it in the rectum, the vagina, it can be used with the blood. It can be put into the ears. Really, the only place we can’t put it is into your lungs and that’s going to cause some damage. Essentially there’s… the easiest way to think about ozone therapy is because you’ll hear something like… I told you, that it helps with herniated discs, right? But then we’re also saying it helps with chronic Lyme disease.

                                                Well, those are two really different things. I kind of categorize it into two different categories. There’s local treatments that’ll help a certain area like a herniated disc, and there’s systemic treatments that are going to help fundamental processes in the body which would be basically just helping everything within your body to some degree. There’s local treatments helping one part and there’s systemic treatments helping a lot. Some of the ways that you apply it, like into the blood would be a systemic treatment. Other ways like into the ears… well, they’ve been showing that’s a little bit more systemic, but let’s say I have a wound on my hand or an infection. I can actually put a bag around my hand, pump ozone into it and it’s going to help to eliminate the infection. That’d be just a local treatment.

                                                Depending on what you’re doing, you might be only helping one part or one area or you might be helping the whole body. As far as the systemic treatments, those are the most popular. Those are the medical uses for the chronic Lyme or the mold toxicities. It would be pretty much either in the blood or rectal insufflation and if there’s a head issue indicated being like sore throat or respiratory illness like we’ve been having lately, ear insufflation is a good option there, which has also… been going into that a little bit, has been shown to have some help with ear damage and hearing loss and those types of things as well.

Michael Roesslein:          Interesting. I guess it would depend on what the root of the ear damage and hearing loss is, what the effect would be but that’s interesting. Yeah. It came with like a stethoscope looking thing and I was untrained and unknowledgeable and I’m like, what do I do with this? And I didn’t play with it yet. In the blood there’s two main ways there at least that I’ve seen. There’s the… what is it called? Major hema something and then there’s the… There’s the one where the blood comes out and goes through the passes and comes back in, and then there’s a different, that’s the… Mira did one of those treatments. They had like a… she called it a blood egg. It was like up on a shelf and the blood would go out and go into the thing, which was on a thing that made it move so that it didn’t clot and then it would come back through the tube, back into the body. It was like a transfusion almost.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. There’s not really a standardized way of doing it with the blood yet, I wouldn’t say. I think the most widely accepted seems to be 60 CCS of blood drawn out mixed with ozone and put back into the body. That would be your standard major autohemotherapy or MAH is easier to say, so MAH we’ll call it. Not to be confused with minor autohemotherapy, but you know-

Michael Roesslein:          But there’s some that you do direct like IV, because there’s a doctor here in the Bay Area that does something different. It’s like a direct administration, but I’ve not experienced that at all.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, we’re-

Michael Roesslein:          It seemed more controversial.

Micah Lowe:                      Different subjects. Yeah, there’s outside of the body where we take some blood out and mix it with ozone and you can do the high dose form, which you guys did 10 passes on. It sounds like with her [crosstalk]-

Michael Roesslein:          She made it to six. It started to get a little sketchy.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          With the blood clotting.

Micah Lowe:                      You can get some blood clotting. There’s some other complications with that. I’m not necessarily a huge proponent of it because it’s mostly just being pushed by the manufacturers of the equipment. There’s a few independent people that are seeing clinical results and publishing it a little bit, but it’s predominantly driven by the manufacturers of the equipment at this point, which doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s just… that’s kind of where it is.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. I got you.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. It’s a higher dose of doing ozone therapy, what you guys did, and then what you mentioned was direct intravenous ozone therapy, is called DIV. That’s when you take ozone gas and you shove it directly into the vein.

Michael Roesslein:          Wow.

Micah Lowe:                      It looks very sketchy because it kind of is a little bit sketchy. I get a ton of flack all the time because I… I’m not a huge proponent of it because I want to see ozone therapy get through FDA approval at one point so we can help more people and more people can use it. I think DIV even if you are getting good results with it, it’s one of the only method that actually consistently has some negative side effects to it, like chest tightness, dizziness, things like that. When you talk to the doctors that are administering it, I think clinically they’ve shown quite a bit of safety in the sense that they’re not like killing anybody because they’re still operating for decades at a time.

                                                It’s one of the only one that has some negative side effects. I’m kind of like, well, why not do the one that doesn’t have these things [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          We’ve noticed absolutely none and we’ve done, I mean probably 70 treatments each since March and I can’t think of a single thing that we’ve noticed. I’ve read through some other interviews you’ve done and some other information that I saw that the incidents of negative side effects, I don’t remember the right term for it, but it was lower than aspirin.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. They say that as out of a hundred thousand treatments usually have six negative side effects being like the dizziness or the clotting or something of that nature, usually fairly inconsequential. We’re not talking death or being maimed or anything like that. I actually was talking with an ex FDA agent recently and just asking them about ozone therapy and that kind of stuff. He kind of did some research on it and he said, “Wow, like this is super, super safe.” Because for how many people are doing it, there’s only been three adverse or maybe it was four that were submitted to the FDA over the course of like 30 years.

Michael Roesslein:          Wow.

Micah Lowe:                      It’s pretty crazy and he’s like, “That’s really quite a safe marker because the FDA is going to look for trends.” Anyway, yeah. The people who published this study, the six out of 100,000 was the organization called the World Federation of Ozone Therapy and they put it into a document. I think there’s more to be said on the safety of ozone, but considering the millions and millions of treatments that at this point are done every couple of years it really has quite a high safety record and that applies to most of the ways that it’s done.

Michael Roesslein:          I couldn’t find anything as far as looking for even those rogue stories on the internet of like, “I did an ozone therapy and this happened to me gauche.” There is about like everything. I really couldn’t even find anything. I was looking those up when we were going to take her to do the 10 pass and I found a couple people that had clotting issues, but that was not… I don’t mean clotting in their body. I mean, like they couldn’t do the passes because their body started to coagulate the blood, but I found like nothing.

Micah Lowe:                      It’s kind of an interesting topic going into the safety on ozone therapy, especially in the United States. Like it’s pretty… I shouldn’t say widely, but it’s gaining a lot of momentum worldwide and there’s a lot of countries that have approved it and use it on a regular basis now in their conventional systems. Recently in Italy with the COVID stuff, they published some results. Some of the scientists there, they did over a hundred patients and I think just had one that needed to be intubated as opposed to before, they had a lot of [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. I saw that study, it was so impressive.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, and it wasn’t like a formal study, but they put out, this is what we did and this is what we saw kind of thing. Then the government said, “Hey, you can go ahead and do that, but if you mess up it’s your fault basically.” It got some momentum in Italy and it’s really pretty widely used throughout the world I’d say, but within the United States, you’ll see, the FDA says ozone is a toxic gas with no known medical benefit and it’s like [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Just like cannabis.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s kind of a contradictory thing because not too long ago, they actually said that… Well, there was a company called [Bezogen] that got through phase II FDA trials, which says that ozone therapy is safe. They put out this one thing saying, “Yup, it’s good to go.” And then they also say, “Yeah, we don’t know anything about that. That’s only toxic. I mean, why would you do that.”

Michael Roesslein:          Somebody’s got to cut them a check.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          Our audience is pretty well-versed on how that type of approval system works. I actually have a couple of friends that are in the MAPS organization in like psychedelic psychotherapy trials with the FDA and like all the hoops that they’ve had to jump through, even though they have mountains like this of safety records and research and things for decades. It’s a process. We talked, it kind of spikes the body’s production of antioxidants, stimulates Nrf2. Now, this is known because there actually is quite a bit of research that’s been done, not here, of course, but in Europe mostly from what I’ve seen. This has been used as a medical therapy there for a hundred years, longer or?

Micah Lowe:                      Yep. I looked into the history a while ago and I found a doctor out of Germany who first started using it that I could find in 1871. They were using it at that point as a disinfectant for skin infections and things of that nature. A lot of people say that Nikola Tesla started doing it or that World War I, but it was actually all the way back to 1871. In the 1890s there was a businessman, a doctor who was a large manufacturer of hydrogen peroxide and they were actually using ozone oil as well. You can go and look at his documents and he actually is like using them in tandem, both the hydrogen peroxide and the ozone oil as more as a sustained release.

Michael Roesslein:          Interesting.

Micah Lowe:                      Then in World War I, Dr. Stoker started using it to treat soldiers who had been wounded because they would get these wounds and they would get infected and they wouldn’t… really have much to do for them because they didn’t even have antibiotics at that point. Would use ozone, it would clear up the infection and the [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Didn’t have to cut off your leg.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, exactly. That was a pretty cool thing and they’re like, what the heck is this? And then they started to study it a lot in the ’60s. There was a guy named [Dr. Valeo Bache] who’s kind of responsible for the scientific foundation of it. He recently passed away I think in December or January. He had spent his basically life career researching it and was a very, very brilliant scientist, and so he kind of laid down the foundation of it that a lot of people I’ve been able to step off of. Now there’s a lot of international scientific committees and congresses and things of that nature, and there’s quite a few scientists involved in that study.

                                                Now, we generally say that there’s over 2000 medical studies on ozone. How credible all of those are, I wouldn’t say like all of them are highly credible. A lot of them are just like, hey, I had 50 patients, this was my control. This is what I did. This is what I saw, which is helpful still, because then it tells you like, huh, maybe that’s worth looking into a little bit more or like when [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. They’re all not double-blind peer reviewed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Which honestly, the more I’ve learned about that process in the United States the less faith I have in it anyway.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. I don’t think it’s the end all be all, but I think there’s some good thing to it. I think there’s a ton of validity just from the standpoint that it’s grown to the level that it has considering the low amount of money in manufacturing the equipment, and just that there’s millions of treatments that are done every year and it’s helping people and there’s a lot of good clinical evidence for that. Yeah, there’s a relatively decent amount of scientific data to it too. They understand some of the biochemical pathways. It’s pretty complicated.

                                                When I take a drug, say it takes something, I’m usually just going to turn something on or off. That’s kind of easy to go in and measure because then you’re like, oh, that like switches off and then you can kind of identify what’s going on. With ozone therapy, since you’re stimulating something super fundamental, you’re really looking at a lot of different areas so it’s really difficult to know.

Michael Roesslein:          Unlike what’s happening down the chain too from that initial light switch in this pathway.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          It starts various cascades.

Micah Lowe:                      Yep. Precisely. They kind of have a rudimentary understanding of the biochemistry, but there’s a lot of clinical evidence.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool. Somebody in our comment section said that ozone is used for water waste treatment in Germany as well. That they use it to sanitize the water treatment plants. That makes a lot of sense. You mentioned ozone oil, which I used for a skin rash about 10 years ago when I knew nothing about ozone. Somebody said here, buy this thing. Buy this oil. It’s ozone oil and I didn’t understand anything, bought it, put it on the rash, rash was gone. It’s like, cool. Never looked into it again and then seven years later, Mira gets sick and ozone comes up again.

                                                Ozone can be infused into oil. It can be… I don’t know if infused is the right word, but into water. We talked about body administration, blood, rectal ears, vaginal. I think I’m missing one, skin and the back to, like diabetic all sort of wounds, right? It’s used… that’s a big-

Micah Lowe:                      Dietarist use it. Yeah, because it [crosstalk]-

Michael Roesslein:          Do they use the water on those wounds or do they use bags and gas or both?

Micah Lowe:                      They can. I think, it seems like the best protocol and I’m not making a claim.

Michael Roesslein:          Yes. We’re not making medical claims.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. It seems like the best protocol is when they take a bag, they put it over the area and they do some injections just right into the skin. They don’t go into the body very deep. Just right beneath the skin they’ll inject very small amounts of ozone gas and then once they do that, they cover it with ozone oil or ozone cream.

Michael Roesslein:          So kind of a hybrid approach. Cool. Could we touch on the water and the oil a little bit? I’m actually selfishly curious about the water. We just got the water bubbler and I don’t really… haven’t read the thing about what to do with it yet and then the oil I know for like skin rash, but I don’t know anything else. What do you got to say about the water and the oil and we’re not making medical claims. I’m going to say that a lot of times doing this webinar.

Micah Lowe:                      Sounds like, hey Michael, we can’t say anything medical.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah, yeah. No, I’m generally careful, but I’m especially careful with this because they’ve come after this quite a bit because a lot of irresponsible people started shouting all over the internet that ozone cures COVID, and you want to get the regulatory agencies to come on you really harsh, go do that.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. We’re just observing what other people do, right? But yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah.

Micah Lowe:                      Ozone water. I recently did a video that said, does ozone water do anything? And basically the conclusion is, I don’t know.

Michael Roesslein:          I watched that video and I guess you probably got some flack from ozone proponents because you weren’t like super… Yes, it does all these things, but you got to walk a line too a little bit with… Yeah.

Micah Lowe:                      I’m not as much of an advocate of ozone as people want me to do in this… from the standpoint that I don’t say it like here’s something or I don’t believe that… I think it’s just one tool in the box, right? If you’re just grabbing one silver bullet, you’re being kind of narrow-minded. I think it’s inaccurate, which at the end of the day what you’re trying to do is help people get better. If you’re not providing what you know to be accurate information or actually believe it, I don’t think you’re doing a service to people. That’s why I’m okay with saying that kind of stuff, is because I just want to put out what I think-

Michael Roesslein:          Oh, it was refreshing. It was like the opposite of overhyping something, which I see a lot of people do, which is a huge turnoff to me especially if it’s something that they work with directly, then it’s usually like, this is the best thing ever, everybody needs to do this thing. They need to do it in every single way possible and it’s better than every other thing and this is the only thing you need to do, and I see a lot of that around, and it’s refreshing.

Micah Lowe:                      STEM cells being the most recent one.

Michael Roesslein:          Yes. STEM cells will cure everything, so will peptides. Somebody is drag racing down my side street right now. Sounds like… anyways, the unfortunate thing about that is that STEM cells are really helpful for a lot of people and so are peptides. When you see somebody talking like that, it can turn people away from things because there’s this meter that goes off that says, “This guy is probably full of it.” And then you discredit the thing entirely.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, and you create a foggy cloud around it. Like if I told you like, “Hey, Michael, you go drink ozone water. You’re going to feel way better.” You’re going to go and drink it and then you’re not going to get it and you’re going to be like, well, this sucks. And I don’t want that. I think everybody wants some win-win. In consideration of ozone water basically the reason I said that we’re not quite sure what it does is because there’s a lot of people that will drink the ozone water and say, “Hey, I had this result from it.” Whether that’s curing leaky gut or treating it or Crohn’s disease or ulcers or increased energy. There’s a lot of anecdotal reports of people saying drinking ozone water is helpful, but it really hasn’t been very well researched yet. I couldn’t even find anybody that’s even tried to collect together like testimonies, good or bad.

                                                What that means to me is that, hey, there’s probably something worth looking at here, especially considering there’s some preliminary data that it does help with Helicobacter pylori, which is a stomach infection but we’re not quite to the point where we can say what it’s doing or how it’s helping in the body and if it’s doing anything. I was writing on cancer a while ago, and this would be a good example. Like say you had cancer and you started doing ozone therapy and it was one of your favorite things that you were doing, you might actually cure your cancer with ozone in the sense that, or as you feel and start telling other people about it. I forget what the percentage is, but there’s a decent amount of people who actually just… their cancer goes away, whether it was due to the ozone or not.

                                                Your cancer is gone and you try to look for what it was that got rid of it and you might grab onto the ozone. That’s why you might get these people who are saying ozone does this, that and the other. Now, I do think we need more studies on that kind of stuff but that just goes to say, even if you see people saying that this did this for me, what if it’s because you started walking an extra mile each day, or you started doing more meditation or prayer. There’s a lot of things that could go into it so I’m not too speedy to say those things help. Anyway, you asked about ozone oil too, right?

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah.

Micah Lowe:                      Ozone oil is different from ozone water. It’s not really for drinking as much although some people do take like capsules and that kind of stuff. It’s more for a topical skin infection. You take ozone gas and you infuse it into an oil and that creates what’s called an ozonide and it’s actually a stabilized form. That’ll last for about two years in the fridge depending on a number of different things. You can take that stabilized form of ozone, pull it out of the fridge in a year and still use it and get good medicinal quality from it, by… It will kill infections off and it will speed up the healing response time, so those are kind of the two different things it does.

                                                Antibiotics, if you take a antibiotic ointment, it might help to kill off some of the infection but it’s not necessarily going to help you heal faster. Ozone oil is essentially a good alternative for that kind of stuff like Neosporin and it’s safe. It’s technically not natural because you’re chemically modifying an oil, but definitely more natural than an antibiotic is.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I used a product back in the day called… I think it was called Olive Gold 03 or something like that.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. I think I’ve seen that on Amazon. We have a product now. I used to sell the ozone oil. I went to ozone cream. I found a good lab basically in Italy that produces this stuff and they produce it through a very high standard so I switched over to that, but yeah. It’s a pretty good product. It’s a little bit disappointing to me because I was pretty excited that we have something that helps with [MRSA] but most people are excited about acne unfortunately, so we kind of had to switch gears to [crosstalk]-

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah, because the oil and the gas and the water, like MRSA, like I mentioned diabetic ulcers, like really nasty skin infection type things. I mean, ozone can be like a heavy artillery in that area like as far as… My dad is type two diabetic and has had a couple of pretty scary foot ulcerative wound issues and the two things that were recommended were ozone and hyperbaric, which is oxygen or increased oxygen, and I got an email, is this legit because it seemed kind of different than a pill or a surgery or a thing and I was like, yeah, wherever they’re trying to send you to do it, go do it. Do both of them. Cool.

                                                I don’t have the oil gizmo yet. I only have the water. I’m working my way up. I have the water bubbler. The water, the oil, the body administrations. I read the other day that it can be used to clean produce, the water.

Micah Lowe:                      Yep. We did a kind of a short sale on that. You can put your produce into a bowl with some water. So you cover it with water and then you take a diffusion stone, it’s called, that just helps the ozone to bubble through the water from the machine and you put it down there and the ozone actually is able to kill off the bacteria and dismantle the pesticides. If you have pesticide heavy foods like strawberries, even if they’re organic, generally have a lot of pesticides on them. It’s not going to get rid of ones in the interior, but on the exterior it can help to dismantle them.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool.

Micah Lowe:                      It can be a good kind of purification thing for your food.

Michael Roesslein:          Can you do that with ozone water that I would make in the bubbler? Or does it have to be that special thing?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, you could do that. I mean, if you saturated it and then just… or you can get like for, I think it’s 20, 30 bucks the stone.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool.

Micah Lowe:                      Just do it from your generator. The one that we had there uses ambient air so that you don’t need to use the oxygen, which is a little bit for convenient.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. The tank. We’re going to talk about that in a minute.

Micah Lowe:                      Okay. Yeah. You could make ozone water and then just pour it in with some water because that will be so much stronger than you would get from those machines that use the ambient air.

Michael Roesslein:          Gotcha. You mentioned the tank. We’re going to have education around this on the site too, so don’t worry about memorizing everything right now. There’s the generator and the generator takes oxygen from a tank, then there’s electrolysis of some kind, right? That then… how does it make the O3?

Micah Lowe:                      It basically applies a high voltage. When there’s a thunderstorm, a lightning strike will actually create some ozone out of the air. We kind of replicate that in a very small scale with something called corona discharge and creates a little lightening storm inside this reactor. When you send oxygen and you can control the amount of ozone that’s coming out the other side.

Michael Roesslein:          Does it make light?

Micah Lowe:                      Does it make light? Yeah. I mean, there can be a small amount of light that is being created.

Michael Roesslein:          You can make it clear, wonder [inaudible] we could watch it.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. I can send you a video after this, but you actually see… I cracked a reactor one time, and you could see… it’s really cool. It’s like this blue hue.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool.

Micah Lowe:                      [crosstalk] electricity, but yeah, that’s creating the ozone.

Michael Roesslein:          I’m picturing one of those balls with like electric that you can put your hands on and the lights go to the… Anyways, like in the [crosstalk] shops.

Micah Lowe:                      [crosstalk] super dense. It’s like-

Michael Roesslein:          Okay. Cool.

Micah Lowe:                      It’s so dense, but yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. It’s the same way. Like if they make molecular hydrogen in water. It’s like the same… it’s electrolysis process that splits the water molecules and makes more hydrogen. Electric is used to do that. The oxygen goes into the machine. The generator makes… ozone comes out one part and then I have another little tube that sticks out the side, that’s a destruct.

Micah Lowe:                      Yup, and let me back up too real quick-

Michael Roesslein:          Sure.

Micah Lowe:                      … and say why you need oxygen in the first place. Ozone therapy is referring to pure concentrations of ozone and oxygen. When you’re doing ozone therapy, you’re actually… at most 5% of the gas is ozone, the rest is oxygen. Now, we want an oxygen tank because that keeps it pure so that when we’re administering it in the form of like rectal insufflation or into the ears or into the blood-

Michael Roesslein:          Then you know it’s only ozone and oxygen.

Micah Lowe:                      Yup. It’s safe. Now, if you’re making ozone water, it’s okay to use it. Ambient air it’s fine but there’s that reactor in there. If you’re passing just all the molecules in the air through there, you’re creating a lot of things that you don’t necessarily want to put into your body. That’s why you need an oxygen tank, is for safety reasons. The destruct that you mentioned, so you have the white machine, there’s op where the ozone comes out, you connect the oxygen to the side. On the other side, there’s a destruct and so when we’re making let’s say ozone water, we take the ozone out of the machine. It goes out of the machine and into this bubbler system and then it bubbles through the water and goes out of it.

                                                We don’t want that ozone to go into the air because then you’re breathing it. If you’re doing it outside, it wouldn’t be a big deal but if you’re in an apartment or in your house-

Michael Roesslein:          Could you hook that back up to the destruct thing then?

Micah Lowe:                      Correct, and that’s just like a… it’s [crosstalk]-

Michael Roesslein:          It makes a loop, so the ozone never goes out. It’s oxygen tank to generate or to water to destruct and it never comes into the air.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. It’s a closed system. Exactly. You’re just neutralizing the excess ozone so you don’t breathe it. A destruct is just for safety purposes, essentially.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay. You were out of the water bubblers when I got the generator and so I just got the water bubbler so now I’m like a kid with a new toy.

Micah Lowe:                      Oh, I know. We got so slammed. We were behind for a while but-

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. It was nuts. You guys did a good job though. I got to say your customer service did well while you guys were getting throttled in like March and April.

Micah Lowe:                      Thanks. I’m glad-

Michael Roesslein:          The delay on the shipping was only like four or five days. Some things I ordered from some companies took like weeks to even get processed, like in the supplement health world. I’m sure that was a frantic chaotic time on your end.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, it was late nights and weekends for everybody for sure.

Michael Roesslein:          I would like to, I think ask you a couple of questions if you got time.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, absolutely.

Michael Roesslein:          … from the audience, and then we can talk about the generators and things. You mentioned the tank, I’d like to cover that real quick because this was weird for me. I actually sent you some emails and I didn’t know what to do because there’s medical oxygen tanks and there’s industrial oxygen tanks and it sounded really scary for me to use an industrial oxygen tank. We’re not giving medical advice. Okay. Because it seems like another point to interject with that.

                                                I would… I called the air gas and the other company around here and asked them like, what percent oxygen is your industrial oxygen? And they’re like, you shouldn’t use it for medical and I’m like, okay, what’s going to happen to me? Like, is this safe? Is this okay? And I didn’t understand because medical oxygen, you need a doctor’s prescription for and it’s the exact same thing and it costs like five times more money. Then there’s industrial oxygen, which is generally used by welders and other types of industrial places. The tank itself, when you buy the tank at the beginning, unless you own a oxygen tank for some reason.

                                                When you buy the tank, there’s a cost there. My take, I think it was like a hundred dollars or something like that and then to fill it was like 20 bucks, 30 bucks. I don’t remember. I got a pretty small tank oxygen and I got the industrial and I just went there. I told them I had a ozone sanitation machine and they were like, they didn’t care at all. Okay, fine. Here you go. You get the tank and then you hook the tank up to the generator. Did I do okay summary there?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, essentially. I think, a lot of people get hung up. There’s just kind of a lot that you have to educate yourself about ozone when you’re buying it, like most of the stuff that we’ve gone through today, but it’s really quite simple. You need to buy a kit, so you need a kit of products that has everything except the oxygen tank, and then you need to get the oxygen tank locally. You can buy it online. They’re usually shipped empty. You don’t want to buy the ones that are full unless you have to, because that’s going to drive up your costs just a ton over the course of time. You don’t want to buy a full oxygen tank online if you can avoid it.

                                                You have to get your kit with your products for like ear insufflation, rectal insufflation, ozone water and then go in and get an oxygen tank and then you have two choices. You can either get a prescription from a doctor and go get a medical oxygen tank from a medical oxygen supply and people just Google medical oxygen supply near me, or you could get a industrial oxygen tank, which is rated for the same grade of oxygen, 99.9%. They really don’t want to sell it to you because they’re an industrial supplier, so I think there’s some medical liability there and they just don’t want to have to mess with that.

Michael Roesslein:          I was very clear I wasn’t using it medically to them.

Micah Lowe:                      You know what? I don’t tell people what to say. I just say like… because every time I’ve gone in, I just say, “Hey, can I get a 20 cubic foot oxygen tank?” And they just, yup, here you go. It’s like buying a coffee.

Michael Roesslein:          I didn’t need to tell them I had an ozone thing. That was like me making it too complex. Like I didn’t need to tell them I had a sanitation… Like I expected there to be some sort of interrogation in the store and the guy wouldn’t care at all if I just said, I need this size of oxygen tank, I don’t have what I need to do, one native said, “Okay, fine. There you go.”

Micah Lowe:                      Going with like a sunglasses and a trench coat.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. They don’t care. Just so if anybody’s nervous about that, they don’t care. Nobody cares. Just don’t say I have an ozone generator and I’m going to use this for that. Like just say nothing and it’s totally, totally fine. They’re not going to care.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. You just go into welding oxygen supply, Praxair, air gas, say, hey, 20 cubic foot oxygen tank, or if you want the one that’s slightly larger 40 cubic foot and-

Michael Roesslein:          It lasts so long.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. If you don’t forget to leave it on.

Michael Roesslein:          I did one time. One time I left the regulator on eight and left it open and it took half the tank by the morning because we used it at night that day luckily. I didn’t leave it on 24 hours. I left it on about eight hours, maybe nine hours and it took half the tank, but we’d had that for two months plus at least, and the little needle on it has barely moved, and we’ve used it almost every day. I’m pretty sure if I hadn’t done that, like that tank would probably last us, I don’t even know how long, six months or longer.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Probably over… Well over a year I would imagine if [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          With two people.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. If you’re just doing like rectal insufflation. I don’t know exactly what… Your daily cost ends up being pretty low over the course of time. If you did, I don’t know, let’s say 500 treatments you’re looking at like $2 a treatment maybe. If it’s something that you really like and want to be as a part of your lifestyle and say you did a few thousand treatments, you’re looking at well under [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          And plus if you use it for oil or water or anything else, and then that stuff you don’t have to buy because the water and the oil can replace a lot of fairly expensive stuff that [crosstalk].

Micah Lowe:                      [crosstalk] longer need to get antibiotics for those. I mean-

Michael Roesslein:          I haven’t had one as an adult, so I just never, ever, ever want to, because I remember being so miserable as a kid and I’ve had friends who have got them as adults and-

Micah Lowe:                      It knocks it out.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. Cool. That’s good to know. Yeah, we have just been doing… and it’s funny, I sent out an email this morning about this webinar and the subject line was you put what where.

Micah Lowe:                      Put it everywhere.

Michael Roesslein:          We’ve talked extensively about like coffee enemas and other things on webinars and classes that we’ve done. Our audience is not too weirded out by things like that and this is actually much less involved and elaborate and time consuming and uncomfortable than a coffee enema is. It’s fast, quick and easy. I’d say between the both of us doing a treatment from, we keep the tank and the generator in the big cabinet in the bathroom. I’d say from start until both of us are totally finished with the treatment is under 10 minutes and that’s to like fill both the bags, do the treatments, put the things away, whatever. It’s under 10 minutes. We’ve probably done about 60 each or so and total the generator kit, plus the tank, plus everything I have, I think was around a thousand or right around-ish there.

                                                I mean, we’re at about $8 a treatment right now and every treatment we do, the cost goes down because we never have to buy those things again and refilling the tank is like $30 or something and it lasts forever.

Micah Lowe:                      [crosstalk] 30 is a bit higher.

Michael Roesslein:          It’s a little more expensive here. I priced them in regions of the country. I think literally everything costs more in the Bay Area in California. Like I think they just upcharge it because of where it is, but it was like $30 or $28, but that’ll last like a year. After a couple years of having this thing, we’ll be paying 30 cents a treatment and it really, really comes out in as far as… man, when you’re in chronic illness and you’re doing alternative treatments for things, it gets absurdly expensive really fast. To have something that’s like at home, simple, fast, easy, safe, cheap over the long haul, it’s a real positive.

                                                I’m going to just throw out a few questions for you from the audience. Does rectal ozone lower good bacteria in the colon or harm good bacteria in the colon as ozone is oxidative?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. That’s a good question. I did a video on this too because that’s a really common question that people have, but essentially… They’ve done clinical studies on ozone therapy via rectal insufflation and dysbiosis, which is like you’re having a bunch of gut issues. You don’t have the right amount of biome essentially, or the right amount of bacteria in there. They actually found that over the course of two months that people had an increased amount of bacteria that they were supposed to in their biome after doing ozone therapy on a daily basis.

                                                Long story short, there’s a number of clinical reports like this saying that ozone therapy actually helps to re-equilibrate the biome and to help it out and they think that it’s possible that it’s just such a small amount that it doesn’t have a negative effect on the entire gut and then just with some of the other benefits of ozone that it’s actually helping them to produce. That’s kind of the theoretical idea. I think it needs more study still but that’s kind of where it currently sits.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay. Yeah. I had that question originally too, and I was concerned like, is this going to mess up our digestion in any sort of way? It doesn’t. I haven’t noticed any sort of negative GI effects for myself. I’m not very sensitive. She is, and we haven’t noticed anything with that either.

Micah Lowe:                      Have you seen any improvement? Oh, probably not much.

Michael Roesslein:          I don’t have a lot of GI related issues. She has a couple issues with certain types of food and generally doesn’t eat them. I can’t really say on that the anti… Okay. What about timing like, if this is too close to medical we’ll have a quick trigger finger on any of these questions using ozone around the same time as like vitamin C glutathione like antioxidant supplements. Is there like a timing that’s ideal or not ideal with that type of thing?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Ron Hunninghake is one of kind of the top doctors in IVC and the antioxidant therapies. He’s the chief medical officer over at Riordan Clinic. I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands of treatments they’ve done, but they have a pretty good way of doing things in terms of their scientific process but they also do ozone therapy. What they say is just not to negate some of the positive effects of ozone therapy. Do your ozone therapy first and then follow up with an antioxidant treatment by 30 minutes.

                                                Now, Tyler LeBaron of the Molecular Hydrogen world suggested using ozone or hydrogen as a precursor to an ozone treatment, but that was more based off speculation. There wasn’t a ton on it. I wouldn’t take that as gospel by any means, but I think Ron Hunninghake is a pretty reputable-

Michael Roesslein:          Hunninghake, is that one word?

Micah Lowe:                      Hunninghake. Yeah. It’s H-U-N-N-I-N-G-H-A-K-E.

Michael Roesslein:          Oh, I wrote hockey like…

Micah Lowe:                      Oh, like hockey.

Michael Roesslein:          Sport. I was like, this is a weird name. I’ve interviewed Tyler too.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          He knows a lot about hydrogen.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, definitely a lot about hydrogen.

Michael Roesslein:          That was more speculative about timing them because we do consume hydrogen, but we usually do that first thing in the morning and then the ozone we probably do like three hours later, so they’re probably totally unrelated.

Micah Lowe:                      I’m saying it’s speculative because he hasn’t really researched it and he doesn’t… he even said he doesn’t know a ton about ozone but he said if there is a time to apply it, I think it might be this and that would be like an hour beforehand. He’s a better resource on that than me.

Michael Roesslein:          No worries. The Riordan Clinic, they follow up with antioxidant after or later.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, 30 minutes or more after.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay. Have you heard of any positive effects with tinnitus and ear insufflation?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. I’ve heard some positive effects on it. It seems to be a bit mixed. You have people who do it and say, “Yeah, it didn’t really help me.” And then other people who said it helped. Most of it is kind of just anecdotal stories. I’ve been in this field for a while, so I hear all sorts of stuff. Tinnitus has been kind of on the radar, but I don’t think there’s anything that really nails it down and says, yep. It helps with tinnitus.

Michael Roesslein:          It’s a stubborn one tinnitus, I’ve found. That’s one of the more stubborn chronic things that people that come to me and ask about it have tried like 700 things for it. I would too, because it would be obnoxious to deal with. It’s like a thing that doesn’t seem like too big of a deal until you have it probably. Ozone was… Yes, definitely. I’ll just answer this one. With foot nail fungus, oil, water or gas, I would guess the bag… gas would be awesome. The oil would probably be pretty awesome. I’ve used it on… when I bought that oil and had the skin rash, I developed like a fungal toe thing and I just slapped that oil on there and it helped quite bit. That’s probably a pretty common use for the topical.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, I’d say so. Athlete’s foot and fungal infections. Sometimes more severe ones can use subdermal ozone injections, so just right beneath the skin injecting some ozone gas and then lavaging with ozone water is pretty common too.

Michael Roesslein:          I own an ozone sauna. I’ve never heard of that, and find it quite good for my arthritis. What do you think of ozone sauna?

Micah Lowe:                      I just recently got this email from somebody that was just livid that I didn’t even say anything on ozone saunas, but anyway, I don’t have too much of an opinion on ozone saunas. I’m sorry. I know it probably sounds like I don’t know a ton on the subject, but the reason I don’t stand very strongly on some of these topics is because there’s just not enough to say whether it’s good or bad.

Michael Roesslein:          Oh, no, need to apologize. I would much rather you take that stance than make up things or try to sound more… or like put something forward that doesn’t have the evidence behind it.

Micah Lowe:                      I’ll say kind of where it currently stands. There’s again, a lot of anecdotal responses to ozone saunas. Dr. Frank Shallenberger is kind of one of the most recognized doctors in the United States and he’s wrote on it quite a bit. They say that they can measure an increase in this and that when they do an ozone sauna. They seem to think that there’s some evidence that it’s helpful to people. I think though the thing that got me a little bit, even more hesitant about it was just… I love saunas, so that’s one of my favorite things honestly.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah, me too.

Micah Lowe:                      Ozone is really, really reactive and one of the things that accelerates that reaction-

Michael Roesslein:          Heat.

Micah Lowe:                      … exponentially as heat. When you’re putting a very… We’re putting a really small amount of ozone into a sauna. Okay. We’re not putting like high volumes in and then there’s heat. The other thing that accelerates the reaction is moisture. You have heat and moisture in a space with a relatively small amount of ozone and then one of the top scientists on ozone therapy Dr. Valeo Bache says it doesn’t pass through the skin.

                                                You kind of have in my mind somewhat of a, I guess balanced, maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. That’s kind of where I’m at with it, but if your arthritis is getting better from doing an ozone sauna-

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. Keep doing it.

Micah Lowe:                      I wouldn’t stop doing it because some guy that you don’t even know said something at a webinar.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. No, for sure, like definitely. That’s what I was going to finish with too. It’s like, if it’s making your arthritis better, keep doing it. I don’t see any harm in it. I think what you’re trying to say is just, there’s not like a ton of verified scientific literature that says that it is doing what it says it’s doing or whatever, and that there’s a lot of things to consider. But by all means, if you’re doing something and it’s working for you regardless across the board, have at it.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, and if you already have the equipment, that’s one of the more expensive setups to get, ozone saunas. If somebody is interested in getting into ozone therapy, I would definitely just recommend starting kind of with the more basic stuff like ear and rectal insufflation and then if you find that there’s enough value into it to merit trying a sauna go for it, or if you’re in a business and enough people are interested in trying that out then go for it, but start small and work up.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool. [Julia], yes. I’ve heard that too. Tinnitus, if anybody’s listening, I’ve had several anecdotal stories of people turning off routers, turning off breakers for their bedroom when they sleep, things like that. Phones, EMF, have had a lot of success with stubborn tinnitus and one of our members put that in the Q&A just to announce to everybody. I wanted to make sure everyone heard it. Totally unrelated to ozone, potential help with tinnitus. That’s done. That’s done. I think there’s only like two more.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, I have all day, so I’m [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Can ozone oil be used around the eye area?

Micah Lowe:                      Not on the eyes. The eyes is an area you don’t really want to put ozone oil on as I understand it, but around the eye area is fine.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. It’s not like it seeps off the oil. You honestly wouldn’t tell the difference. At least the oil I used, it just felt like olive oil. It smelled like olive oil.

Micah Lowe:                      Good ozone oil should have some of a rancid oil smell to it because you’re oxidizing it. There should be a little bit of an odor to it, so we get… it’s a little bit annoying because we’ll have the product on Amazon and then people are like, I got rancid oil.

Michael Roesslein:          This is bad.

Micah Lowe:                      It’s like, well, that’s actually good but-

Michael Roesslein:          Do you know what bad oil actually is?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. They just don’t-

Michael Roesslein:          Maybe mine wasn’t very good then.

Micah Lowe:                      I couldn’t say, but it could have a pretty strong odor to it.

Michael Roesslein:          It won’t like inflame the eyes if you were to put it around here.

Micah Lowe:                      It’s commonly used for like dark circles, crows feet or acne, those types of things. For cosmetic purposes, yeah. I got kind of in love with the product when a girl that was working for us just had acne for a good portion of her adult life but she had tried different diets. She had tried different things and the ozone oil just really helped it out. She doesn’t work with us any longer. She moved to a different company, but she still is purchasing the product and using it on a nightly basis, and then another employee, his wife, same thing and the ozone oil or the cream I should say was really effective for just acne and cosmetic purposes.

                                                Not to say it’s going to work for everybody but it’s definitely, when you’re considering some of the chemical based products out there that are not good to put on your face so I think it’s a better option.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah, for sure. I would roll with that too. Somebody mentioned biological dentists use ozone water to clean teeth and injecting gum. I’m actually planning on using mine. I have a… what is that called? Like a Waterpik and I’m going to make it and put it in there and use that because I’ve been using like peroxide and water kind of and I figured this would probably be better. How long does the ozone water stay ozone water?

Micah Lowe:                      Most people will say has a 30 minute half-life, which means that every 30 minutes it’s going to reduce in its strength by 50%.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay, so make it and use it right away if you want it to be…

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. If you’re using distilled water and it’s kind of cool, like 35, 38 degrees and you keep it in glass, it’ll last quite a bit longer than that.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay, and then finally I am putting in link in the chat that will take you to where the ozone kits and generators come from. We’ve got a code [RHT 10] is 10% off any orders across the whole site. I know a lot of people have commented in there wanting to know what I have. I have the Stratus 3.0. There’s also a Stratus 2.0 in there. Do you mind speaking on the difference between the two at all, between the 3.0 and the 2.0?

Micah Lowe:                      The Stratus 2.0… Essentially my question to people is, do you want to save $70 or do you want something that’s a little bit easier to use and going to be a little bit more functional over time? Not hugely, but I believe that’s why it’s priced the way it is, is because it merits the $70 difference. If you want to save a buck, go for the Stratus 2.0. If you want the one that’s slightly easier to use, going to be a little bit more functional over your course of using ozone, then go for the Stratus 3.0, is that kind of specific enough for you?

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. Yeah, that’s fine and they want to know specifically what kit I have now. Originally I got what’s called the Stratus 3.0 home user kit, which is the most basic of the kit. I then ordered a water bubbler later mainly because I didn’t even know about it at the beginning and then I bought it later. The complete kit has the water bubbler in it and it looks like ear insufflation equipment as well, and then there’s a gold kit, which probably has the oil maker.

Micah Lowe:                      Yep. The most kit is the complete kit as the big three, which is ear, rectal, and water. The home user kit is kind of the, hey, I just want to get started and try this out and not worry about spending too much. That’s kind of the, just get me started kit. Complete kit is the most common because it kind of covers the top three ways to do it at home, and then the gold kit is, hey, I just want to do everything with ozone because I love it and I want to try it out or I’m just interested in it. That has supplies for the limb bagging, for the ulcers and the wounds that we were talking about for ozone cupping, supplies for the oil, like you mentioned, and that can be used in a number of different ways, but yeah, the gold kit just has more supplies in it.

Michael Roesslein:          Cool. I summarized that in there. The bags now started to leak after a few months it seemed, like sometimes it would smell because ozone is corrosive to materials I guess when it sits in there, like if we leave the bag sitting too long or like something like that. It had about a three month life on it, it seemed using it like every day. Is there something we might’ve done wrong to cause that to happen or is that just like normal wear and tear?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. It’s just wear and tear on the bags. We’re going to be making a higher quality one again, in the sense that it’ll last longer. We had one before, but nobody was really interested in it and then it’s like, ah, okay. Anyway, there is a way to bypass it and you guys are going to hear about this, but essentially you can do this so you don’t have to. You can use the bag. I’m a proponent of using the bag personally, but you can do direct from the machine without using the bag and just timing it on your watch or whatever.

                                                You can hook up silicone tubing, hook it to the catheter, get your gas going, directly insert it and just time it for 50 seconds or whatever. You have to calculate it out and if your group wants more information on how to exactly do that I can-

Michael Roesslein:          Sure. Yeah, we can get to that later. I would guess the time would also depend on what concentration it’s at, because it comes with a regulator which we didn’t talk about, which is a really easy to use. I was like terrified putting that thing on the tank. I thought I was going to like blow up my kitchen or kill myself or something. It’s really simple to do. Dealing with tanks of gas and things, if you’re not someone that deals with tanks of gas and things, I don’t know, I was nervous around it. It has flammable stickers on it. It seems like something that could explode. It was really easy to get the regulator on and then you just turn it to the number you want and that keeps it coming out slow. We started on seven, which I think is 34 of the whatever measure of unit of density of ozone.

Micah Lowe:                      Micrograms per milliliter, but we just call it gamma because that’s easier to say.

Michael Roesslein:          Gamma 34, and then we went to eight, which is 40 and those seem to be the only two that are highlighted on our thing, so we stay with those and we started at 200… Is that milliliters? Yes.

Micah Lowe:                      200 milliliters.

Michael Roesslein:          And then we went to 400 the second month and then upped it from seven at 400 to eight at 400 and that’s where we’ve kind of kept it. Is that about a decent titration and standard place to go?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, that’s kind of the standardized protocol put forward on that. Rectal insufflation is a bit more standardized than some of the other therapies, but yeah. You can go up to twice a day as well after a month of doing it but [crosstalk] you’re trying to fight that may or may not be feasible.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. I mean, it’s really simple. I’m not exaggerating. It’s really easy. Once you get it hooked up and you get to tank and you get used to it, like it might be weird and awkward and strange at first for like a minute and then it’s really, really simple. I go up, make two bags go, she goes in and done put the things away. Like I said, it’s like under 10 minutes, so it’s just part of our after breakfast morning thing that we do. It’s really simple. I have a link there. When we have the recording for this, we’ll have the link there as well. There’s a code RHT 10 is 10% off any orders, which on a purchase like this is really significant. Thanks a lot for offering that.

                                                This is kind of one of those things that we decided to do to invest in our house like we talked about earlier. It becomes really, really cheap after a while. If you’re going to have this around for a couple of years and use it in a bunch of ways, you’re looking at 50 cents a treatment and things like that. It ends up being super affordable. Now, two last questions pop up, and limb bag ever used with arthritis… Do you have limb bags on your website or is that something that needs to be acquired elsewhere?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, they’re on the website.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay. I’ve never looked for them so I didn’t know.

Micah Lowe:                      I think they’re like 25 bucks. They’re like a self-sealing bag.

Michael Roesslein:          Okay.

Micah Lowe:                      [crosstalk] actually-

Michael Roesslein:          Have you ever heard of people using a limb bag with arthritis?

Micah Lowe:                      It’s generally-

Michael Roesslein:          [crosstalk] like the sauna.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Generally not for arthritis. You can go into a doctor and they can do some injections and there’s actually a lot of-

Michael Roesslein:          Even the systemic.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, and they’ll help with that with some of the inflammatory stuff but doing the injections is really, really helpful for carpal tunnel and arthritis and I have osteoarthritis in my low back, which is different from rheumatoid, but yeah. It can be really helpful to do the injections, but probably not the limb bagging.

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. That question is about arthritis and then somebody else asked anecdotally that ozone oil helped topically with swelling of joints due to rheumatoid arthritis. Now Mira has rheumatoid arthritis sort of, like she’s getting mixed diagnoses, but her main symptoms is joint pain and joint swelling and things like that. Like I said, she did take a positive turn when we started incorporating the ozone and like you mentioned in one of your answers people are doing a lot of things, so it’s hard to say X is the reason it’s happening, but there definitely wasn’t effect there. She also had some neuropathy that when we took a few days off the ozone she noticed that the ozone was helping the neuropathy.

                                                We have not used it topically, oil on her hands or anything. They’re not currently swelling or hurting which is awesome but the systemic, the rectal insufflation use did seem to have an impact on the overall inflammation situation.

Micah Lowe:                      Good. Yeah. I wouldn’t anticipate too much response from doing the ozone oil, although I know they use it for athletics for like knees and stuff. You could try it, and we can send you some stuff Michael too, and you can try it out and let us know. Yeah. I wouldn’t anticipate that to be the best course of action. I guess it’s hard to say because I have access to just going and getting a injection, which not everybody does. If I was doing it I would definitely try it out and see kind of what kind of response I get from it but the injections are going to be much superior form for joint inflammation and it works with the pain pathways and can help to heal it up and that [inaudible] stuff.

Michael Roesslein:          Do you have a local doctor where you live that does the injections with the ozone?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. I haven’t been lately, but usually I’m traveling around to conferences all the time and with-

Michael Roesslein:          [crosstalk] excited.

Micah Lowe:                      … ozone doctors and stuff so I can just [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Hey buddy, you busy on launch?

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Exactly.

Michael Roesslein:          Because I haven’t seen that offered a lot. I’ve seen ozone in like alternative medicine practices. I’ve seen the two different blood variations done. I’ve seen the rectal done and honestly like once you shop around and you look, if you wanted to go to a doctor or practitioner to get rectal insufflations done, to do them as regularly as generally recommended, that’s going to cost you an absolute fortune compared to getting a generator and a tank. I was pretty shocked at the sticker price on some of them around here, what they charged for that. Now that I know what, what it costs, there was like a 3000% markup. I haven’t seen it a lot with injections advertised.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. There’s quite a few doctors, that too. If you go to map.drsozone.com, there’s a list of doctors and it’s not the best map, but you can-

Michael Roesslein:          Where’s the list of doctors?

Micah Lowe:                      Map.drsozone.com or you can just-

Michael Roesslein:          Okay, drsozone is D-R-S ozone.com. That’s where you guys have a bunch of educational stuff.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah the website needs some love, but it’s there if you look for it. You can actually filter just by doctors that do ozone injections, it’s not all of them. If for some reason you want the best doctor in the country for ozone injections, go to George Kramer in Minneapolis.

Michael Roesslein:          Interesting. All right. Minneapolis. I’m taking a lot of notes because I’m going to write some follow-up posts with this. You usually judge the quality of the webinar by the franticness of my note taking. I have that. Side note about Minneapolis, really nice airport in Minneapolis.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:          It’s one of my favorites in the country.

Micah Lowe:                      I was just there. A family member passed away and I had to go to Wisconsin, but yeah, we flew into Minneapolis and yeah, it’s a beautiful airport.

Michael Roesslein:          Much better than flying into Wisconsin. Yeah. I got stuck there once on like a seven hour layover when I was living in Chicago and it was the winter. You never know flying in the Midwest in the winter, it’s like a crapshoot on whether you’re going to get to the place that you’re trying to go. I was like, man, seven hours in the Minneapolis airport and then I found a farm to table restaurant. A like food shop that wasn’t like Frito-Lay and Snickers bars. They had like organic food in it.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, organic market, right?

Michael Roesslein:          I think I watched a football game in a bar that was serving farm to table food and like… it was really crazy. It was not stuff I’ve seen in an airport before and it was like easy to navigate and get around and the people were nice and it was like, I was in some sort of travel twilight zone and-

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah, [inaudible] Minneapolis.

Michael Roesslein:          … like come up with excuses to go back to Minneapolis. All right, cool. Well, I think that’s all the questions. That’s all the questions I had. That’s all the questions that they had. Mold and mycotoxins that’s one of the main drivers of my wife’s situation. Her flares have all involved mold and mycotoxicity and that’s one of the main reasons that we’re personally using it. In the mold and mycotoxin community or online of patients, it’s something that’s very commonly talked about and used. Insect bites, maybe the oil might be helpful.

Micah Lowe:                      Definitely. Are you talking like spider bites or something? Because-

Michael Roesslein:          It just says insects.

Micah Lowe:                      Let’s say mosquitoes. Yeah, just use the oil. If you’re looking at like a spider bite or something, do some little injections in around it.

Michael Roesslein:          Ozone oil being used to help osteoporosis. I don’t think oil would be osteoporosis. From what we’re understanding, there’s not a lot of evidence that you put it on topically and it goes into the body.

Micah Lowe:                      Correct.

Michael Roesslein:          Can nurse practitioners do ozone injections? I would guess yes but-

Micah Lowe:                      I’d guess so too. I can’t remember if they need to be under a doctor license or what the laws are, but it varies state by state too, so that’s just really a broad answer.

Michael Roesslein:          Any anecdotals with ovarian cysts, uterine polyps, and… I guess it would be vaginal insufflation, but I don’t know that at all.

Micah Lowe:                      Honestly, not that I know of. Some of these things too, you kind of keep an eye out for more than others. If like, say that hasn’t been something among family and friends, it’s possible I’ve heard it over the years, but I just can’t recollect [crosstalk].

Michael Roesslein:          Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, that is all of them. We went about 20 minutes over what I intended so thank you so much for sticking around and answering the questions. I scribbled a lot of notes. I will try to make sense of these. We’re going to get this recording, we’ll get it transcribed. We always like to do that. Some people prefer to read. For anyone on here, this’ll be available in a couple of days once we get the transcription. You have the link there, the code there for any purchases from the site.

                                                We’ll have that up with that too and if I… I took a bunch of little notes on some people you mentioned in some centers and some experts and things like that. I’ll probably throw some of those links up there too with the video just so that they’re easily accessed and yeah. Micah, thank you, man. I really appreciated it. I learned a ton and it’s something I’m really grateful to have in our life and I hope that some other people check it out for sure.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. I think ozone is one of those things that more people should know about it. If I can be a piece of the puzzle there and just helping people understand what it is and how it might fit in, I’m happy to do that.

Michael Roesslein:          You are definitely a piece in the puzzle. Every search I did led to you as far as educational stuff about ozone to do a webinar like this, so-

Micah Lowe:                      Awesome.

Michael Roesslein:          You’re doing a great job, so thank you.

Micah Lowe:                      Yeah. Well, thank you.

Michael Roesslein:          See you later everyone and thanks for hanging out with us tonight. We had a good crowd, a lot of questions, a lot of engagement, a lot of smart people that already knew more about it than I did. As always, thanks for hanging out with us and have a good night.