Tributyrin: Breakthrough Molecule for Microbiome, Histamine Issues, and Leaky Gut?

More Posts from
Gut Microbiome & Digestion

RHT Gut Repair & Microbiome Optimization Guide

10 Steps to Repair Your Gut, Optimize Your Digestion, and Build a Healthy Microbiome!

Tributyrin: Breakthrough Molecule for Microbiome, Histamine Issues, and Leaky Gut?

with Steve Wright, Digestive Specialist & Founder of Healthy Gut

Since hosting 3 webinars with Steven Wright, the founder of Healthy Gut, we’ve received many questions from practitioners and customers regarding details, best practices, dosing, and other information related to the Healthy Gut product line.

So we’ve invited Steve to come back and answer all of your questions!

This training webinar will be useful for any health practitioners who are using (or would like to use) Healthy Gut products in their practice, and also for anyone looking to learn best practices for their own use of this professional quality gut and digestion support line!

  • Formula (what’s in it?)
  • Function (what’s it do?)
  • Quality & Effectiveness (why it’s the best option)
  • Who may benefit from use/when to use it in your practice
  • How to best use it (dosing, best practices, contraindications, etc…)

So whether you are a health practitioner, someone looking to optimize your own digestion, or just someone who likes to know about the best supplement options on the market… we’ve got you covered!

Want your practitioner to have this knowledge, pass along this recording!

Are you interested in applying for a wholesale account? Apply by emailing support@healthygut.com

Webinar Transcript

Michael Roesslein:

So Steve, man, thanks for doing a webinar today. I tend to only ask you when you’re traveling, if you’re able to do live things on the internet, so I appreciate the flexibility with that. We are going to go through your line of products, which the reason I wanted to do this webinar is because since we started retailing your products and we did those webinars, we get a lot of questions, some from practitioners about how do I use these in my practice, or how can I get an account set up, or which one do I use for which people? Or questions that you’re far more qualified to answer than I am, so I figured we could ask them to you, and then we will have this as reference for all the professional types that want to use your product line in their practice. And then we open the doors to everybody because our audience loves to learn things and they generally ask as good of questions as the practitioners do. So we’re going to do a little deep dive into the three Healthy Gut products.

            Steve Wright is the founder of Healthy Gut, was co-founder of STD Lifestyle. He’s been involved in some way or another in the world of gut healing since I was a bartender, a long time ago. I think Steve, one of your interviews with Sean Croxton was probably maybe the first thing I ever saw in the world of functional health, nutrition, any of that. And I was like, “What are these guys talking about?” But that was that long ago. So I think I just dated both of us. If anybody here is familiar with Sean Croxton’s summits. So it was late 2000s, I think, maybe-ish. 2010, no?

Steven Wright:

Yeah, 2010, probably.

Michael Roesslein:

2010.

Steven Wright:

2010, something like that.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. Which feels like it was last week and it was 12 years ago. So been in the game a long time. Steve’s a voracious researcher. If he doesn’t know the answer to a question, he pretty much just doesn’t stop reading things about it until he figures it out. And the product line, which if you attended any of our webinars, we’ve done on all three of the products, the HoloZyme, the HCL Guard and the Tributyrin-X were pretty much created out of necessity because you wanted something to help you. And the products that were on the market in those categories didn’t work very well for various reasons. So we have individual ones that go in really deep dive on each of the three. Today. I’d like to just like give a little overview of what each one is, best practices, when to use it and then answer some Q&A, any contraindications if there are any, and basically a guide to practitioners or individuals who want to use these products to help their digestion. I think that’s everything.

            So we started with HoloZyme, with Rebel Health Tribe, and that was the first year products that I used. I don’t know, actually on your end, which one is the most popular or the most used, but digestive enzymes are something that a lot of people know. So I guess we could start with that. First off, where are you, are you in Dallas?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. I’m in Dallas in an ice storm right now.

Michael Roesslein:

There’s ice storms in Dallas?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. Today.

Michael Roesslein:

Oh. Today, because you were going to Dallas for a thing.

Steven Wright:

Right. Yeah, just for me. It was just a surprise for me.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. I wasn’t sure if you left Dallas or were in Dallas. You had mentioned before we went on air. Steven’s in Dallas for a conference and they made an ice storm for him so he got to fly in early and so we get to have him in a hotel.

            So HoloZyme is a comprehensive digestive enzyme product that also has co-factors that make enzymes work.

Steven Wright:

Correct.

Michael Roesslein:

That’s my less educated than you are explanation of what it is. So maybe we just go in a little bit to the formula itself, what enzymes are in there, why those enzymes are in there, and then what the other ingredients are and kind of why the formula is what it is.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. Okay. Great. Well, I’m going to as we talked to you about, I’m going to sort of do this whole talk as if I’m talking to a practitioner and [crosstalk 00:06:08].

Michael Roesslein:

That’s fine.

Steven Wright:

And then if you’re not, that’s totally cool too. We welcome you as well. So when you’re trying to select a digestive enzyme for your clients, one thing you want to select for, or if you don’t select for it, if you just want to notice as you give it to people or prescribe it to people, is the difference in efficacy, basically how many people actually buy it on the second time you recommend it, or how many times people actually will getting mad if you try to take it off their health plans, things like that. And in the past, most of the other brands out there, I found only 30, 40% of people would actually defend keeping their enzyme product. And that was my experience as well. Is that I could take it one day and wouldn’t notice any, and then I take the next day, I noticed something. And so HoloZyme was built to combat that.

            There was multiple things that were put into place. One of those was the different types of enzymes. And so if you look at the back of the bottle, HoloZyme, there’s three classes of enzymes. And I put all three in there because there’s no way to test to know who’s deficient in which ones. I mean, there are a few tests, but you’d have to knock someone out and withdraw their intestinal juices, and spin them up, and figure that out and that’s just not feasible. And so class one would be pancreatic enzymes, and those are amylase, lipase and protease. Class two are brush border enzymes. And so those are enzymes like maltase, lactase, invertase. And then the other class, class three is microbiome enzymes. And these are enzymes that are actually secreted by the healthy microbiome. These are things like alpha-galactosidase, xylanase, and cellulase. So I should have brought the bottle. The bottle is way behind me, over there, and I’m a big dummy, so I didn’t bring it over to my desk here.

Michael Roesslein:

I got one downstairs. I can go get it if we need one.

Steven Wright:

No, no. I think I remembered most of them there. So one of the reasons why I think HoloZyme works so well is that we cover all three of those. So whether you are someone who actually has a pancreatic enzyme deficiency or not, we got that covered. Whether you’re someone who has damage to the small intestinal area, we got that covered. And then it seems for a lot of people with digestive issues, especially bloating and food sensitivities, those microbiome enzymes tend to be very helpful. And so that was some of the innovations we brought in as far as just the actual makeup.

            Then the other reason why a lot of other enzymes fail is just due to lack of activation because they don’t contain mineral co-factors. And so that was sort of the big breakthrough I figured out when I was trying to solve the equation of why don’t these things work for me and why don’t they work for everybody else? Was that vegetarian and vegan-based enzymes that are created in the lab are called Apoenzymes. You can look this up in a textbook, they’re literally a classification called apo, which means without, and they’re without their co-factor. Any enzyme that’s created inside of an animal body, whether that’s a pig, a cow, a human, they are called a whole, W-H-O-L-E enzyme. And that basically means there’s an envelope package that contains the mineral.

            And so the PhD guy that got the patent on activating enzymes, that was sort of the big breakthrough, was sort of marrying the three classes of enzymes with their various co-factors to turn them on, and kind of put it all in one capsule so that we cover all the bases. Because like I said, I think between our varied diets and our basically millions of different potential equations for what could be wrong with someone’s gut at a various time point, I’m just trying to build things that don’t fail, and that tends to lead to really good success.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. That was actually the enzyme co-factors was something that I’d never heard before and I’ve used like a million different kinds of digestive enzymes. And I noticed too, they were kind of hit or miss. If I took a handful of most of them, I would notice some help, but nobody wants to take a handful of pills. And so I went with more expensive is better. So then I would get the Enzymedica ones and they had the most enzymes in it and the most… What’s the measurement for enzymes? Is it CFUs? No. IUs.

Steven Wright:

Well, actually, each one has their own measurement, which is complicated in the readability of the label.

Michael Roesslein:

Oh, of course. Wonderful. Okay. Yeah. That’s great. Great. Thanks, science. But I thought more was better, so I would get the one with the most enzymes and the highest numbers on the thing. And I never knew anything about co-factors or anything else. So the co-factors actually make sure the enzymes turn on, and that they have what they need to go. And that’s how they’re always found. In nature, the enzymes are with the minerals, so that sense. So that’s a little bit of the why, and what’s in it, and how it works.

            This is where I throw in my popcorn testimonial. I can eat popcorn without feeling like hell when I eat these enzymes and that was my test, because popcorn’s my only food. And side note unrelated, I found popcorn at a little grocer in my town here in Italy, and Italians do not eat popcorn. And so I was so excited. Not really, it’s not a common thing, so I grabbed it off the shelf and I was like, “Popcorn.” She immediately started speaking to me in English and asked me which city in America I was from, as soon as I touched the popcorn. But I can eat it without bloating and that was my test. And so I mentioned bloating. Who are the candidates, digestive enzymes as a whole? And a lot of practitioners, if you’re on here, you know which clients of yours are probably the ones that would benefit from digestive enzymes. You’ve probably given them other digestive enzymes or recommended them. But what’s what are the biggest red flags that someone could be either enzyme deficient, or just in need of some boosting of enzymes for digestion?

Steven Wright:

It’s all your standard digestive complaints, as well as autoimmune complaints, or just complex client complaints. So, enzymes are stopping pain, they’re stopping bloating, they can be stopping constipation or diarrhea, or at least improving or supporting. I shouldn’t say that. They definitely don’t treat that. But they work especially well for anybody with food intolerances, leaky gut, and bloating, and then beyond that, for people who have mild stool irregularities, either soft or hard, they tend to regulate that. But there’s a whole class of people, the Hashimoto’s people and the rheumatoid arthritis people that don’t identify as having a gut issue, but all their symptoms go back to a dysregulated immune system, a dysregulated microbiome, probably a leaky gut, and so those individuals tend to be very helped as well, and they’re the ones that get the weird testimonials where they’re like, “Wow, that rash just went away and never comes back,” or, “I used to have this environmental allergy and that’s gone,” or, “My fingers would swell up and those go away.”

            So I think from a practitioner standpoint, at least when I was seeing people as a consultant, I put everybody on enzymes. To me, they’re like vitamin D, they’re like magnesium. They’re, there’s no question, if they’re coming to me, they’re not getting all the nutrients they need from their food and so I want to try to remove that variable for at least the first 60 to 90 days of working with them to see if it helps. And then, we can cycle off of them and try new things. But that’s how I worked and everybody has their own philosophy.

Michael Roesslein:

Makes sense. Yeah. And I’m kind of the same with enzymes, both digestive, systemic, enzymes to me are kind of if somebody’s coming to me for help, this is part of the foundational package that somebody would get. Because if you’re not getting the nutrients out of your food, you’re not going to get better. And you mentioned auto immunity and that the autoimmune folks, like, “I had this rash, or I had this symptom,” or they don’t view themselves as having a digestive issue, what about enzymes, what would be the potential mechanism there of how would taking enzymes with their food result in lessened symptoms for somebody with autoimmune potentially or less inflammation?

Steven Wright:

Well, I’m still not aware of any other research besides Fasano’s research suggesting that leaky gut and gut dysfunction is a precursor to autoimmune condition. So until that theory is invalidated I still take the point of view that if you have autoimmune-related conditions, if you have complex multi-system inflammatory issues like name any one of those random, crazy disorders, the inflammation and the issues start in the gut and they’re perpetuated in the gut. And that’s the big thing, is that they keep happening on a regular basis. And that local inflammation on a daily basis becomes systemic over the month, over the years. And so we want to do whatever we can to stop the inflammation cascade, get them the nutrients they need for their body to heal. As we’re all aware now, 80% of our immune cells are located in the gut. So anything that we can do to soothe and regulate the gut immune connection is going to go systemic and help support, whether it’s a Hashimoto’s like a thyroid autoimmunity, or a brain autoimmune, or a joint autoimmunity.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. Makes sense. And I’ve also heard the theory that part of the problem with leaky gut and autoimmune is that these undigested proteins are making it through gut lining and not recognized and cause red flags and all of that. And the enzymes can help break those down into pieces that don’t trigger that same thing. I haven’t seen a clinical study that demonstrates that. I’ve just heard a lot of researchers and scientists talk about that’s a proposed, it would make sense.

            So typical symptoms, nutrient deficient, inflammatory conditions, bloating, gas, diarrhea, constipation, all these types of things, not breaking down food properly, not absorbing the food properly. How does dosing work with this one? For me personally, in my experience, I just usually take two with a meal. And then if I’m eating something that if either, if I’m eating more or something different than something I know doesn’t make me feel awesome, I’ll up that a little bit, three, four. But I don’t have inflammatory gut issues. I don’t have IBS. I don’t have Crohn’s. I don’t have IBD. I don’t have these like drastic symptoms with whole categories of food. I’m not someone, if I look at a bowl of lettuce, I get bloated. So in the more acute situations for practitioners with people who have pretty significant digestive issues, what recommendations do you make as far as titrating or dosing goes? And this is not medical advice for anyone. I’m just going to keep saying that.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. Yeah. It’s informational purposes only. So, I mean, let’s start with the safety profile in humans. We know that enzymes have been used in humans for multi-decades. I don’t know four or five decades now. So our longterm safety profile is pretty well established in humans. I always like to go to the edges of the edge cases and just see what’s happening. And so for instance, Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez was a really famous cancer doctor who passed away, he uses systemic enzyme therapy. Systemic enzymes are just enzymes taken without food. Digestive enzymes are taking the same enzymes with food. There are some specialty enzymes that are extra studies and extra cool for systemic reasons, but digestive enzymes can still work systemically if just taken without food.

            So anyways, in the systemic enzyme area, Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez gave people, and his lineage of doctors give people 130 to 160 capsules a day on an empty stomach. And they have some pretty decent testimonials and some pretty good results in their lineage. So we know that the safety profile for enzymes in humans is much greater than the back of the bottle. And it’s usually much greater than what’s even talked about in your standard nutrition or functional medicine courses. They don’t tend to really cover this kind of stuff.

            And so I think one of the missing pieces to this as a practitioner that you can bring in, whether you use our product or anyone else’s enzymes is just know the fact that 34% of the people you see statistically will be on the long tail of a bell curve. So statistics, there’s a bell curve in the middle. There’s two big chunks, that’s your one standard deviation off of the norm. Those people will probably do just fine with two capsules with the meals, just like Michael does. However, 34% of people either need more or less. And because of the safety profile, I really want to encourage people to open up their dosing ranges and encourage their clients to play around. Try four, try six, try eight, if you want with food. I haven’t really heard of any of our customers needing eight.

            We do have some of our customers who take six, and if I’m going to be out at a restaurant and I know I’m going to have a glass of wine, and I might be getting gluten cross-contaminated, or they might put some seed oil or something junky in my food, I’m taking six personally, but I have kind of a weak gut and long history of issues. And so I think that’s the biggest thing is when it comes to enzymes, people are not increasing the dosing enough and they’re not playing around with it. That’s the difference between a great practitioner and a mediocre practitioner, right there, in one statement.

            So play with the dosages. Up the dosages, whether it’s holozymes or other enzymes, because the difference for somebody who needs four enzymes and someone who needs two enzymes is literally the difference between them thinking that you’re an amazing practitioner, or them seeking out the next practitioner in three months and leaving your practice. Because if they can actually break down their food and stop having these digestive complaints, they will stick around. They will get better, things like that. So that would be the big thing around dosing.

            And then with holozymes, I’m a big proponent of taking them systemically. If you have a different systemic enzyme you use, like a specialty enzyme, I know there’s Fibreza and some other ones, [inaudible 00:21:24], that’s great too, if you use dosing practice. But if you don’t want to carry two brands and you want one that also has human research studies on it, HoloZyme does have that. And so taking two to six on an empty stomach, one time per day is another great way to lower inflammation, kind of clean up that blood, those extra proteins you talked about earlier, that could be getting into the body and not being filtered by the liver and kidneys properly. And again, that’s just something where you got to play with the dosage, give it a shot. I take them in higher doses systemically, after a big workout, if I’m run down, if I’m-

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:22:04]

Steven Wright:

Out if I’m run down, if I’m traveling, and I’m worried about getting sick or something, or any sort of pain. When I go hunting, I take more, try to recover faster, things like that.

Michael Roesslein:

All right. I think that’s pretty clear. Enzymes are tons of safety studies for decades. There’s no contraindications with the enzymes either. I know with some enzymes there are, with blood thinners, but you don’t have lumbrokinase or nattokinase in this formula, right?

Steven Wright:

No.

Michael Roesslein:

So there’s no contraindications that you’re aware of with…

Steven Wright:

Not that I’m aware of, but obviously, if you have weird reactions, stop the product right away.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah.

Steven Wright:

Talk to somebody, email us, support a healthy gut, things like that.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. Yeah. They got great support. Any of our people that have reached out have been really happy with the level of support. Am I frozen? Are you frozen?

Steven Wright:

It must be me.

Michael Roesslein:

Are you frozen or am I frozen?

Steven Wright:

Check one, two, check, check.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Steven Wright:

Can you hear me?

Michael Roesslein:

Somebody drop in the chat that you can see and hear us, and we’re not frozen would be helpful at some point. But cool. So no contraindications that you’re aware of. We did the dosing. We did the ingredients. We did the who. All right. So with meals, for digestion away from meals, more systemic. And let’s go to the next one. The next one we did was Tributyrin-X, so we can do that. And this is butyrate. We talked in that webinar, pretty much extensively about butyrate and the different forms that can be supplemented in. And it was sodium butyrate is the normal one, I think, that was traditionally what it was. But you had to take a ton of it, and then you’re consuming a lot of sodium with it.

            And this tributyrin molecule, the way that it’s structured, this is kind of new-ish, a new way to deliver butyrate to the large intestine. That’s the short, abbreviated version. So you can probably do a little better than that, but why did you create this one? What is butyrate doing in the large intestine, or I guess systemically? Because I learned a lot of that webinar, that it’s a lot more than just what it does in the large intestine. But what is butyrate? Why the Tributyrin versus sodium butyrate? And what does it do?

Steven Wright:

Yeah, butyrate is a short chain fatty acid. And if you need to hear this 100 more times, I understand, because it took me a really long time to really understand butyrate short chain fatty acids, what’s happening in the gut with them. But I was aware of butyrate short chain fatty acids for six or seven years, and when my health issues flared up three and a half years ago, I didn’t have these tools from healthy gut. I just had my old tools, and the HCL and enzymes I was taking. The other probiotics and probiotics I was taking, still wasn’t getting the job done. And I was still having bloating, inflammation, food reactions. And so I was like, well naturally, I got to get the sodium butyrate stuff on board. And I tried several brands and dosages and I couldn’t figure it out.

            I couldn’t get really the results that were shown in literature. Which the results in the literature are things like less pain in the gut, which that’s my family history. That’s my body history, is visceral hypersensitivity. So I was hoping for less visceral hypersensitivity, less inflammation in the gut. That’s all been shown even with sodium butyrate. Recovery from loose stools and diarrhea, I don’t really have that. And then support with constipation, which is more what I tend to. Increases in leaky gut healing, things like this. But when I took these products, I couldn’t physically feel it and none of my symptoms were really getting better. So that just kind of tells me there’s an opportunity, right? Whenever we see a ton of people saying, “Hey, this should work.” And then when I test it, and I don’t see results on myself, and then I talk to other physicians and health practitioners, and they kind of told me the same thing. “Oh yeah, we used this one for a little while. Then we switched to this one. Then we switched to this one.”

            And I don’t know, it’s transformative for some people, but not for everybody. That’s when I know there’s an opportunity to innovate and make something better for everybody. And so that’s where tributyrin came. Which was again, first asking the question, why is this not working? And it appears to be that one of the reasons why it’s not working is that the sodium butyrate, the cal mag butyrate molecules are immediately taken up at the membrane level of the small intestine at the top of the small intestine. So they don’t need digestion. There’s these things called gradients. I still don’t completely understand them, but it’s basically like a chemistry equation of where the concentration is higher or lower, and then it just gets sucked right across the membrane. That’s how diffusion happens in cell walls. It’s just crazy cool stuff. Maybe one day I’ll have my true biochemical major, but I’m not there yet.

Michael Roesslein:

Science magic.

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Where are your fancy animations? I’m just kidding.

Steven Wright:

Totally. Totally.

Michael Roesslein:

One time I looked into having cool animations to go with the webinar we were doing. I looked into having cool animations made, and then I found out how much it costs to do cool animations. And I was, “Oh, all right then, more respect to all those people who do have cool animations.” But yeah, it’s just a way of it diffusing kind of. The cell just sucks it into wherever it isn’t.

Steven Wright:

Right. And so that’s one of the potential reasons why the salt-bonded butyrates don’t seem to get universal results with people. And the tributyrin molecule is a fat backed butyric acid molecule that has to use a little lipase to break apart. And so it naturally coats the small intestine, and hopefully, it’s going to get into the large intestine. It doesn’t need to. There’s nothing that suggests that you have to put butyric acid in the large intestine for it to work systemically or locally. In fact, if you look at the enema studies on sodium butyrate, which again, the majority of your butyric acid in the body is made in the upper large intestine. If you’re using an enema, you’re going to put it in the lower large intestine. Those studies are actually inconclusive. There’s about 50/50 shot that you’re going to get help or hurt on those, especially in ulcerative colitis studies for butyrate enemas. So a lot of people wonder [crosstalk 00:28:58]-

Michael Roesslein:

That’s because the butyrate isn’t made where the enemas go, so it’s probably not super native to there.

Steven Wright:

I think that’s one part of it. I think that’s one part of it. I think the other part is just injecting a bunch of sodium into your colon might be a bad idea. I know there is some salt down there, and it is a salty place, but that-

Michael Roesslein:

That’s a lot of salt though. The sodium butyrate is a lot of salt versus [crosstalk 00:29:27]-

Steven Wright:

Yeah, think about it. You can go make salty liquid water and go kill your plants. You can go put it on your driveway and get rid of weeds and stuff. So sodium is beautiful. Without it, we die, too much of it, we die. So we got to get it in the right solution for our bodies. And I just think that it was the first generation. It’s really easy to work with in the lab and chemistry-wise. It’s not carcinogenic usually, so it’s very easy to give to people without worrying, are they going to be having an issue. But technology’s moved on. It’s like Windows 95 versus Windows whatever we’re on now. I don’t even use Windows, so [crosstalk 00:30:07]-

Michael Roesslein:

Windows 1007. I have no idea.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. And so that’s what tributyrin is. And I think that’s why tributyrin works a lot better. There’s also studies suggesting that in… There was a rat study where they gave IV sodium butyrate and oral tributyrin , and the oral tributyrin improved the plasma levels of butyric acid better than the IV sodium butyrate. So it’s in a mouse and in a rat, but still, that’s a red flag. If you ever see an IV get beat by an oral substance, you know that [crosstalk 00:30:45]-

Michael Roesslein:

An oral substance is much, much more effective.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. Yep. So you know something weird is going on there. And then they’ve done some pork lung tissue studies, where they bathe these inflamed cells in different types of butyric acid. So they butyric acid. They do sodium butyrate. They do tributyrin , and then they up the concentration to see what the anti-inflammatory level is. And sodium butyrate appears to have kind of a U curve where, in the middle dosage ranges, it’s very helpful. But it’s very not helpful in small dosages, and it’s very harmful in high dosages. And tributyrin and butyric acid, which there’s no brands out there that have just straight butyric acid. The only way that that’s found is in your gut. You can’t just get that. It has to be bonded to something.

            But tributyrin and butyric acid are just straight up and to the right, meaning that the higher the concentration, the higher the anti-inflammatory effect. These have not been replicated in humans yet, but so far, all the research is suggesting really good stuff. The other thing that’s cool is tributyrin was given to cancer patients at over 40,000 milligrams a day, and they only experienced mild GI discomfort, mild blood sugar dis-regulation in one type two diabetic. 40,000 units is a whole bottle of Tributyrin-X. Nobody would do that. There’s never been a study above 4.5 grams of [crosstalk 00:32:15]-

Michael Roesslein:

But you said 400,000.

Steven Wright:

42,000.

Michael Roesslein:

[Crosstalk 00:32:22] whole bottle?

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

42 grams.

Steven Wright:

Yeah, 42 grams.

Michael Roesslein:

Jesus. Okay.

Steven Wright:

So it’s about a 10 X-

Michael Roesslein:

And that didn’t have a toxic effect, and that’s a lot more than you would be taking or using in your practice.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. So again, when it comes to what are we seeing in the toxicity profiles for humans, from a practitioner standpoint, our data on tributyrin is, we at least have some safety data that suggests that it’s not toxic at 10 X the dosage that you would use with somebody on a regular basis. But we don’t have that data with sodium butyrate.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. Let’s you mentioned dosing a lot, unless there’s more things you want to talk about, butyrate, tributyrate, butyrin, anything else that it-

Steven Wright:

I’ll just say the last component, because people ask a ton of questions about this. If you powder of supplement, you got to think this through, and as a practitioner, I’m going to hold you to a higher standard than the public. When you’re choosing your products, I know there’s lots of things like the back of the label and how much it costs and who the brand is, but you got to really think about the sacrifices that are made for the creation of it. If you take a naturally liquid a product and you powder it, you’re introducing a bunch of carrier substances and caking agents. You can’t do that manufacturing process without it. And so all the powdered tributyrins out there, I do not like them.

            You can ask their companies for their data sheets. Their data sheets, as far as I have seen, all show the usage of omega six seed oils, to basically powder tributyrin . And it also reduces the strength of it. So ours is 99.9% pure tributyrin. Most of the powder stuff I found is 30% standardized tributyrin , and then you have all those 70% of those carrier oils. And so that’s why I’m a big fan of either Pure Encapsulations, which I know is pure as well, except for their coloring and their flavoring, and then ours. And so that’s why Tributyrin-X was built. That’s why it works better. It’s cleaner. It’s more powerful, those types of things.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. That makes sense. Powderizing a fatty acid is something that requires extra ingredients and a much more complicated process, but why do they put flavorings in something that’s a capsule? The pure encapsulation ones, is it in a gel thing like yours?

Steven Wright:

No. It’s liposomal liquid.

Michael Roesslein:

Oh, okay.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. So it’s really good for kids under two, whereas ours are-

Michael Roesslein:

Can’t take. Yeah. Yours are tiny though. Those are small. I just did my little, I don’t know what that’s called, your thing with all the little things where you put your supplements for the week. I was literally just finishing mine before I came on here, and yours are the smallest things that I take. So they are small, if anybody on here hasn’t seen them. They’re they’re a little tiny, yeah, squishy little gel cap things. Okay, butyrate, tributyrin, why the formula is like it is, why you created it. Who’s the candidates for this one, main candidates? I remember when we talked about this on the webinar, you brought up that… This is an aside or not an only.

            But people with histamine intolerance and mass cell issues, the people with the hyper reactive systems to everything, you guys have been seeing a lot of positive results in those groups. Which is pretty incredible given the fact that they react if they like pick up a bottle of a supplement a lot of the time and don’t even take it. So that’s the most reactive group of folks that are out there. So I know that that was mentioned. I know a lot of practitioners, oftentimes, aren’t really sure what to do when they run into somebody that’s that reactive to things. So that’s one group of people, but who else and what else would be indications for potential usage of tributyrin in a practice?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. You mentioned the first group of people, which is the super reactive, super sensitive histamine or leaky gut, never ending people. The second big group that’s helped right away is loose stool people. And then third group is the sort of complex inflammatory people, who also tend to have lots of reactions either to supplements or to foods or just to life. But in general, they just can’t seem to get their inflammation bathtub lowered, so that they can just be in alignment with their environment. These are oftentimes mold people as well, that type of thing, those complex viral people like the tick borne illness people. So basically, because butyric acid, think about it, one of the things we’re always going to try to correct for as a practitioners, a microbiome imbalance, at some point. You’re going to check them for a parasite. You’re going to check them for a SIBO or a SIFO, or a candida, or whatever you check for, whatever you focus on.

            The microbiome testing out there right now, it’s kind of weak. It’s pretty pathetic, honestly. It’s not very repeatable. You can’t really compare one company to the other company. You have to just keep using one company over and over again and kind of build up a thing. So I don’t know that we can really measure dysbiosis, but we know that that’s happening. And I think that’s why I haven’t focused on dysbiosis all that much, or what’s the right microbiome profile? Instead we want to focus on, I think, how do we create the conditions for the microbes, the right ones, to grow? What kind of food do they need? What kind of environment do they need?

            And so if you have too much oxygen in your large intestine, you cannot grow the good bacteria. You literally can’t grow. Bacteria, they’re hypersensitive to oxygen, and they need a low oxygen environment. That’s why they’re called anaerobic bacteria. It means without oxygen. So if your body has switched due to antibiotics, due to mold injury, due to lifestyle injury, due to whatever, if your body has the colonocytes, if they’ve switched their metabolism away from butyric acid and oxygen to glucose or something else, where they’re not sucking oxygen out of your intestine, there’s no amount of probiotics or prebiotics or killing programs that are going to reset that microbiome environment. You’ve got to get the oxygen out of there. And the only way to really get the oxygen out is to give the body more butyric acid.

            So the colonocytes switch back to metabolizing with butyric acid, and then they start sucking the oxygen out. Then it’s almost like we’re putting a biodome in there, and we’re creating the right environment, like trying to land on the surface of Mars. We got to reset the oxygen area to allow life to flourish, the right life that we want. And so that’s where I think Tributyrin-X is amazing. And it’s one of the reasons why the testimonials are just so profound, I think, because there’s not really any other substances out there that can do this work. We can feed someone all the vegetables we want, but if we don’t have the butyrate supporters or the butyrate producers, they’re still not going to make the butyric acid. And there’s just not a lot of probiotics that you can take that will effectively restore those colonies. And so I think it’s, you start with a supplemental tributyrin. I would support Tributyrin-X, but of course, like I said, Pure Encapsulations makes a good one as well. And then you add back in your probiotics and your prebiotics.

Michael Roesslein:

That’s pretty fascinating, what it’s able to do and kind of flip the metabolic switch in the gut that I think a lot of people, it gets flipped the other way. And then, like you said, you’re in an uphill situation where the things aren’t working on the right fuel. There’s there’s oxygen there, so the downstream effects of flipping that can be pretty traumatic and comprehensive. Dosing-wise, I don’t even think we really talked about this much on the webinar. So for practitioners working with people that they want to give the tributyrin a go, where do you start with the dosing? You said people have taken 1 million milligrams of it, so I’m guessing there’s not a too high, but is there a, you titrate from low to high?

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

How do you get started? Where do you find the sweet spot? What do you recommend?

Steven Wright:

So again, if you take nothing away from this, just take away the fact that the dosage of the products you give people matter as much or more than the brand you give people. And everybody’s going to have a unique dosage, even in your patient population. Even if they’re all SIBO people, or all mold people, they’ll have different dosages. And so if you have someone who’s very sensitive, they’re a mold person, they’re a histamine-related person, they’re just generally identify as a sensitive individual, we recommend you start with one pill every three days and slowly build up. On the ninth day, you’d start taking it one pill every day, and then you’d slowly build from there to as many pills as you need per day.

            Now, how would you know when you’ve hit that right amount? Well, the cool thing about tributyrin is that it is a motility regulator. And so the one side effect of it is, it will slow down your digestive track too much. And it’s actually paradoxical, because if you get a slow GI track in response to one or two capsules, that actually is a decent sign, at least at one capsule or one capsule every few days. It’s a decent sign you’re actually super deficient in it, is what I’m learning. You should be able to handle one of these per day, if not two of these per day. If you get extreme constipation reaction to that, it’s typically a sign of deficiency. Again, it’s a U curve, but we don’t want that, of course. No one wants constipation, and we don’t want to exacerbate anybody’s problems. And so we go slow.

            Most people will end up around the two to three per day, which is why there’s 90 capsulesF in the bottle. Some people who are loose stool or diarrhea-oriented individuals, they will need more. And so they will be in the four to six per day. As you mentioned, the studies in humans have gone up to 42 grams a day. The whole bottle only contains 45 grams, so I haven’t heard of anyone taking more than 16 in a day. And that person was 55 years old, had never had a formed bowel movement in their entire life, had tried every single pharmaceutical and every single nutraceutical. And we had had a long conversation back and forth. And so she’s on four, four times a day, and she’s having her first formed bowel movements. And she’s the happiest woman in the world.

Michael Roesslein:

Wow. That’s fun.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. So there’s really cool stuff that can happen [crosstalk 00:43:45]. And for those people who get… For instance, I wanted to find where I would get stopped up. And so somewhere around four to five is when I get pretty constipated. And six, I kept pushing it because I’m a big dummy like that, and I want to always find the edge.f

Michael Roesslein:

Every time. Yeah, every single time.

Steven Wright:

Yeah. So six-

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:44:04]

Steven Wright:

On the edge.

Michael Roesslein:

Every time. Yeah. Every single time.

Steven Wright:

Six, really got me bound up. I had to pull out the magnesium and everything to get unwound from that.

Michael Roesslein:

And that’s with food you take those? Or does it matter?

Steven Wright:

It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. So we have about 10 to 15% of customers who take it before bed. They don’t even have a GI issue, but they have sleep issues. And so there’s one study on rats and mice, and tributyrin, basically, improves non-REM sleep by like big magnitudes. And so we have like some biohackers who, with their war rings and their whoop bands, they take it before bed and they see their numbers jump by 20 to 30 minutes of deep sleep every night.

Michael Roesslein:

Wow. I could try that. I’m down. I usually take it with food because I thought gut supplement goes with food. But I’ll give it a shot otherwise. Say you’re taking four a day, is it best to take it four times a day, one? Or does it matter if you take four at once versus one four times a day?

Steven Wright:

If you’re trying to boost sleep, obviously take it near sleep. If you’re not, then I don’t know that it does, but I tend to think that coding… Because again, we’re trying to reset metabolism here. We’re trying to reset leaky gut. We’re trying to improve mucosal healing. We’re trying to improve tight junction healing. All these things I would think is better off dripped out throughout the day, not just one [inaudible 00:45:25] dose at a time. So, doing two pills twice a day, or two pills at night and one pill at breakfast and one pill at lunch would make sense for four.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Any contraindications there? Don’t take the whole bottle at once if you’re or diabetic?

Steven Wright:

Right? Yeah. Don’t take the whole bottle.

Michael Roesslein:

You said the one guy had a… The product does not come with a funnel.

            Also, I meant to say this earlier, but you were on a roll so I didn’t interrupt you: you said biodome. Shout out to a classic of American film, anyways.

Steven Wright:

Totally.

Michael Roesslein:

It’s one of the greatest movies of all time for those of us that are around 40. Cool. So that is HoloZymes. That’s all I could think of for the next like 30 seconds while you were talking, was them like dancing through the thing and Pauly Shore is a thing.

            So HoloZymes and then Tributyrin-X, those are those two. We’re probably going to cut. We’ll send the recording of this out as a whole, but we’re probably going to cut these into product specific and have them with the product on our site, so for practitioners to reference really easily.

            And then the third one is HCL Guard. And that was the third one we brought in, the third webinar. People listening to this, especially practitioners are probably pretty familiar with HCL. Supplementing HCL is not new. That is not a new thing that we just… It’s not like Tributyrin-X where it’s like a pretty new, Tributyrin’s like a kind of new thing. This is pretty roundly accepted as beneficial for a lot of people to aid in digestion. So that said, there are a lot of HCL supplements on the market and there have been for a really long time, like since I started with gut supplements. So why did you make this one? What’s a little different about it than your standard betaine HCL or betaine. I don’t even know how to pronounce that properly. You know those words you read all the time but you never heard say out loud?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. You could say it either way [crosstalk 00:47:37] I understand.

Michael Roesslein:

I’m in language school right now and I had to write the word consonant.

Steven Wright:

Oh, no, I can’t do that.

Michael Roesslein:

Never had I ever seen that word written. Any who…

            Why? Why does this exist? Why did you make HCL Guard? How’s it different than other HCL supplements? And then we’ll get into talking a little bit about stomach acid and why somebody might want to try this.

Steven Wright:

Yeah, yeah. Betaine HCL was actually the first supplements that I’ve tried for digestive health. It changed my life. So I’m a huge fan of HCL. I think it’s a very, very under dug into and under tested for issue with people. So why create, why innovate and just make another product? Again, I don’t want to create a supplement company that we’re doing something that actually helps the world.

            And so I’ve used literally like maybe a thousand bottles personally of betaine HCL, from all the companies out there. And I guess I just have this little gene inside of me that just wants it to be optimized. And always, as soon as I started reading some of the research from like the eighties, the twenties, there’s like this cool book from the 1880s about stomach acid, when it was like revealed that stomach acid’s not just acid, it’s also all these other things. It’s pepsin in its intrinsic factor. That I was like, wait a second, if we’re trying to replace something that’s lost or low, why don’t we build something that mimics the body? Why are we only giving a quarter or a half or two thirds of what’s available? So, I just had this fascination around intrinsic factor. And then it gets worse because… I can’t remember off the top of my head if it’s 1.5% or 3% of people who take PPIs for like a year will end up with low B12 status. It’s something small, but it is significant to our discussion here.

            And so PPIs, if you don’t know, shut off all stomach acid. B12, if you don’t know, need something called intrinsic factor to be actually absorbed across the membrane in the small intestine. And if you don’t know, there’s something called perniscus anemia, which is anemia and it can be like so frustrating for clients and patients who cannot get better no matter what. If you have an anemic person, it doesn’t matter how many healthy gut supplements you give them or any other supplements, they will not get better until you solve their anemia. And the most frustrating anemia is perniscus anemia because it’s actually anemia secondary to low B12. So if you have not enough B12, your red blood cells can’t carry enough oxygen to your cells. You’ll feel like junk your whole life until you fix that B12 issue.

            Well, we know from the PPI research that like one to 3% of people who take it for a year, so they have low stomach acid for a year, can end up with low B12. And so this always just annoyed me. And so I wanted to solve that issue. It turns out the reason why there’s not that… I don’t know if there’s any other companies doing an HCL product with intrinsic factor. I’m not aware of anybody at the moment. The reason why is there’s only two sources in the world. They all come out of Argentina. It’s very expensive to get it and it’s time consuming and lots of supply chain issues.

            So anyways, I still wanted to do it to see if it actually mattered for folks, if it really mattered for myself. And then beyond that, I figured if we’re going to innovate on HCL, we should include a prokinetic because part of what is happening when you have low stomach acid is you’re messing up the prokinetic waves and the timing of your entire GI track. And so I just thought, hey, we pretty much always give DGL to people with upset stomach linings and low stomach acid because their stomach lining gets inflamed. They get a type of gastritis, sometimes they’re an ulcer. In Asia, the number one thing used for healing this is DGL. Why don’t we put DGL in the capsule to help heal that stomach lining? And then why don’t we put a prokinetic ginger in there as well?

            And so that, that was the genesis and it was a test. It was a total test. And I think it’s been successful. What we’re seeing now is that if you need to take like four or five of another brand of HCL, even if it has more pepsin or more HCL per capsule than ours, you’ll end up needing like two to three less pills of another brand’s product, and basically feel as good or better on our product with less pills. And so that’s a big win for folks who get pill fatigue, who can’t swallow very good. And usually even though our bottle costs more, it’s usually cheaper in the long run because of the extra doses you get.

Michael Roesslein:

Gotcha. So it’s not just HCL where a lot of the products are. And it has synergistic ingredients that help people who often are in need of HCL in other ways to soothe and coat and support the stomach and upper GI. So it’s a little bit more comprehensive, equals less supplements, less pills, wider effect, and probably some synergistic effect that we don’t fully totally get of the ingredients.

            So my understanding with HCL is, and the big misconception, which in the circle of people who are on this webinar it’s probably not anymore, but that everyone has too much stomach acid and so you need like… We’re all Pepcid and Tums deficient and we need to pound Tums every time we eat because we have too much stomach acid. And our bodies are all just making way too much stomach acid because they’re broken. And in reality, most people that have the symptoms that you take those things for are deficient in stomach acid. So it’s kind of counterintuitive, I feel burning, why do I have low stomach acid? Maybe just like a very, very short comment on that.

Steven Wright:

I mean, that’s the best evidence I can give you. The best evidence I can give you-

Michael Roesslein:

We can go like full webinar length of conversation, but how is it possible that someone has low stomach acid yet they’re having reflux and like burny sensations?

Steven Wright:

It’s because what we feel as humans, we make up stories about. We have preconceived notions and we make up stories from marketers to fill those notions. But we can’t comprehend what’s actually inside our body.

            So Dr. Steven Sandberg Lewis, a mentor of mine, Dr. Jonathan Wright, a mentor of mine, actually had Heidelberg and pill capsule test equipment inside their offices. If someone came in with IBS or heartburn, they would put them through a low stomach acid test. You can get access to these tests. There’s like 10 50 clinics around the US, some in Italy actually as well. Italy’s pretty forward in some of the GI stuff. But anyways, it costs like 300 to $600. It’s very not fun, but you can get the answers.

            But anyways, these guys who tested hundreds and hundreds of patients who had this symptom profile, they found between 70 to 85% of those incoming patients actually had low stomach acid. So if you have those issues, right away you have a 70 to 85% chance that that’s not actually what’s happening. Now, how could it actually happen? Well, first off, the bottom of the stomach is really, really strong. Inside your stomach it can get down to a 1.0 on the pH scale. That’s less than battery acid. That’s like boring a hole through metal acid level. That’s super cool. And your stomach is very strong. So it does not open, the bottom of the stomach does not open until the pH has reached a certain point. And so if the pH never drops far enough and you have low stomach acid too much, you’re creating the wrong biodome. You’re essentially creating the conditions for life to live.

            Now, this is a first principle that people don’t think enough about in my opinion, which is that life will respond to anything that it’s given. Life always wants to live. I don’t care if it’s a good bacteria or a bad bacteria or a human, we just want to and all life wants to live. So if you give extra food sources, and there’s bugs everywhere, there’s bugs in the stomach, there’s bugs everywhere, they will just live. And so even a few extra hours sitting in stomach that doesn’t have acid, bugs start to feed on the food and they ferment. Bugs typically ferment. What is the byproduct of ferment? It’s what happens when you open your kombucha: fermentation, gas. That gas can’t go through the bottom of the stomach. Some of it goes into the cells, but the majority of it’s going to go the easiest way out, which is out through your mouth. And so it’s going to pop open the top of the stomach and then you’re going to have hot gases. You may get some specs or even some strong reflux.

            And so yeah, it definitely feels painful. I’ve had it. I struggled with it for many years until I got into this stuff. So it feels like one thing, but the root cause of it… It’s the opposite, honestly. You don’t want less acid. So, if you get to the pro level, don’t start here, but pro level, where I’m at after 10 years of playing with this stuff, if I have heartburn, I take more HCL guard. Even if it’s been 90 minutes, past meal, one capsule and is gone. That’s you got to your body, you got to play with it. Those types of things. So low stomach acid typically creates the conditions for fermentation either in the stomach or in the small intestine. So one of the biggest issues we see with SIBO and candida and overgrowths in the small intestine, is due to low stomach acid. And you can look to the PPI research in to prove this out.

Michael Roesslein:

Which raises the pH in the upper GI, which makes it more hospitable to more things that shouldn’t be there. And then also, doesn’t it-

            Bile, you secrete less bile if the pH isn’t low enough, right?

Steven Wright:

Correct.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. Because the bile secretion is triggered by pH as well, of what’s coming out of the stomach. You SIBO folks out there like this to me is step one of anything related. Plus like going back to the basic basics of what stomach acid is for; breaks down food, digest food, absorb food, get nutrients, heal the body, don’t break down food, don’t digest food, don’t get nutrients, don’t heal the body. So-

Steven Wright:

And add one more step in there, which is feeding other life. You’re not feeding your own life. You’re feeding other life. If you don’t break the food down and you leave it in your intestine too long and it goes to the wrong areas, again, you’re just throwing peanut butter on the sidewalk and wondering, why do I have ants? Why are there weird creatures coming around my house? You keep throwing-

Michael Roesslein:

It’s the anti biodome.

Steven Wright:

… grape juice on the floor in the kitchen and you’re wondering why you have ants.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, okay. So a lot of the practitioners on here probably are familiar with that, but maybe this is an easier way to explain it to somebody. So I found using analogies and nineties movies references are definitely more effective than getting super sciencey with clients. So don’t throw a peanut butter on the sidewalk and get ants, use HCL Guard; it’s the new tagline on the bottle.

            Dosing wise, you can take too much of this. I used to play with that. And I don’t know if the Heidelberg, I don’t know the name of it, but I went to a gut training a long time ago in San Diego, maybe eight or nine years ago now, with Emma Lane from was the CHEK Institute. She doesn’t work for them anymore. But we had to swallow the things, like capsules on a string.

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, that sucks. Like anybody who’s like, oh, I want to do that. You don’t want to do that. But we did that. You eat some protein and then you wait like 30 minutes and then you swallow a capsule on a string and then you gag a lot and then you pull it back up and gag some more. And then we looked at it.

            And this was a room full of health practitioners. It was like 30 health practitioners, most of whom don’t have GI symptoms, don’t have problems, don’t have that. All but three of us were deficient on the optimal pH scale when we pulled the thing back up and looked at it on the chart, 27 out of the 30. Some of us were pretty close, but 27 out of 30 were lower than what would be optimal of stomach acid production. And we ate like beef jerky, which nothing stimulates stomach acid more than like straight protein. So, that was shocking to me. And then I started using it with just about everybody I was working with because I assumed if a room full of health practitioners is all deficient in stomach acid then the people who are having issues that are coming to see me probably are. But don’t wish that capsule trick game on yourself at all. It’s terrible.

            So dosing wise, do you go by the… I mean, I’ve heard the challenge, the take one at a meal, take two at a meal, take three at a meal. If at some point you start feeling sort of burning or like warmness or discomfort, dial it back one or two and then that’s kind of where you’re at. Is that still what you guys are seeing works?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. Yeah. We’re still seeing the exact same dose escalation pattern be the way to figure out exactly what people need. And again, dose really does matter with this product. People can take one pill, two less and not really feel the benefits of like increased hair, skin and nails. Remember, you’re not going to have the signs of beauty if you don’t have the signs of health. You don’t get extra amino acids to get the hair and skin and nails you want if you don’t have enough to make the cell walls and the protein synthesis and the muscles you want and the brain cells. So if you have all the classic symptoms, low energy, brain fog, brittle hair, skin and nails, acid reflux, constipation, burping, you want red meat, but you don’t feel good when you eat it. All these types of things, you’re really high likelihood that you need this. And then if you try it and you don’t have a contraindication reaction of like heat or burning, then you definitely need to keep escalating. And some people do need to take six or seven pills per meal for a while, but most of them will slowly reduce that over the course of three to nine months is what I’ve seen.

            And someone did ask about contraindications. This is the one product that we’re talking about today that does have contraindications that you need to be aware of and you need to respect. First one is ulcers. Any active ulcers do not take this. And its second one is any active gastritis do not take this. Third one is if you take it and you feel pain, don’t take it. And then the fourth one is longterm use of corticosteroids. Corticosteroids have side effect of thinning the mucus linings in your body. The mucus lining is what is protecting the stomach and that’s what gastritis is. So you take corticosteroids and then it thins it out. Then you get gastritis. Then you get ulcers. So anyways, don’t take it with HCL, any brand.

Michael Roesslein:

No corticosteroids, no gastritis, no stomach ulcers… [crosstalk 01:02:48]

Steven Wright:

And if it hurts when you take it, take some baking soda and don’t take it. Or you can test it one more time, but after that just get a refund.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People ask about this all the time and I’ve actually… Both you and Kiran, when we’ve had webinars with him and HCL comes up… Microbiome Labs doesn’t make an HCL but he’s pretty well versed on taking them. Both of you contradict the commonly held belief that if somebody has a known H. pylori infection or overgrowth, that HCL should be contraindicated. He says, no, you said no when we talked about it in the last webinar.

Steven Wright:

I think it’s 100% a myth.

Michael Roesslein:

I have not seen any evidence that that’s true.

Steven Wright:

No, like I said, I think it’s 100% a myth caused by early research into how do you kill H. pylori. The common thought is that because H. pylori does drill into your stomach wall and shut down the stomach pumps around it, that you would want to draw it out of your cell wall. But if you’re drawing it out by lowering the pH and making a more hospitable environment, aren’t you also encouraging it to have lots and lots of babies and also potentially go deeper. There’s nothing that says it comes out. We don’t have any research that suggests it just comes out. What if it goes deeper and comes out? So anyways, I’m a big believer of setting up the right ecosystem for your body to survive and restoring the body back to whatever, whoever built us, God, universe, beings from Mars. I don’t know who designed this body, but I do know that there are conditions in which it functions optimally. And so I don’t don’t think that encouraging a more hospitable environment to something we do not want is a good idea ever.

            And then personally, I’ve seen in my own practice when I was practicing and then plenty of my other friends that have great success killing H. pylori while using HCL, whether it’s other products or HCL Guard. So I think it’s just a total myth that somebody latched onto and started teaching at some schools and then here we are a decade later, still trying to kill this thing.

Michael Roesslein:

Makes sense. This is not the only topic that seems to have fallen into a bucket like that over the time I’ve been in this industry and then later found out to have no teeth. It’s a thing that everybody believes and repeats and says and then nobody can prove it or show that it’s true. I’ve been answering a couple questions in the Q and that I know how to answer.

Steven Wright:

Okay. Yeah. Do you want to just feed them to me?

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. Well, a couple of them were stuff that I don’t need to ask you so I was getting them out of there. But you got time for a few questions?

Steven Wright:

Sure.

Michael Roesslein:

That’s it for the HCL Guard. So I think we just nailed all three. We have some questions. Reason taking HoloZyme before bed… You answered that after they asked that, which was as a systemic enzyme. I take systemic enzymes for inflammation, for joint pain, for clearing out crap.

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:06:04]

Michael Roesslein:

… for inflammation, for joint pain, for clearing out crap. I have hemochromatosis, which causes thickness of the blood and coagulation issues. So I take a lot of enzymes to help with that, but that’s a systemic enzyme thing. Are these enzymes taken all the time or only when symptomatic? That’s back to the [HoloZyme 01:06:22]. I personally take them with every meal to optimize what I’m getting out of my food. Do you have a response to that?

Steven Wright:

No, yeah. I take my enzymes at the end of my meal. I mean, some people recommend taking them at the beginning of your meal. For some people, it does seem to matter for their bloating. I think the more active your overgrowths are the more it can matter.

Michael Roesslein:

[inaudible 01:06:48].

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

How does Tributyrin-X differ from the [Apex Tributyrate 01:06:54]? Is theirs a powder? Do you know?

Steven Wright:

Let me Google it real quick. I think Apex includes some [propionate 01:07:01] and some acetate in there. Is it [crosstalk 01:07:08]-

Michael Roesslein:

Let me see if there’s any others I can answer while you’re looking that up.

Steven Wright:

I’m not sure if it’s [ EnteroVite 00:01:15] that the person’s talking about or if they have a different one. EnteroVite from Apex uses calcium beta methylbutyrate, [hydroxyl-beta 01:07:24] methylbutyrate, don’t know that one. I’ll have to look into it. I know the back of it, it’s a cal-mag butyrate, basically and then it uses propionate. Yeah, I mean, ours is more powerful milligrams-wise of butyric acid. I don’t don’t know. I haven’t studied that form of it. I’d have to look into it more. And then the propionate is really interesting, acetate and propionate in supplemental form, the research has been pretty mixed and kind of scary to me. What we know for sure is that we do acetate and propionate to have a healthy GI system and actually have healthy butyric acid production, but the supplemental attempts in humans and in rats has been like really wild results and sometimes really bad, like really obesogenic and things like that.

            Because I wanted that as well, I wanted to like let’s recreate that whole microbiome environment, but the research is just not very supportive at the moment. I don’t think we know enough. And then it looks like they have a tributyrin 350, which includes [CoreBiome 01:08:40] as the active ingredient. Unfortunately, CoreBiome is the one that is 70% seed oils. That 350 milligrams, you can ask them for this, but unless CoreBiome has updated their stuff, that’s only 30% tributyrin by weight, so that means 35, I think the math on that’s about 90, about 100 milligrams of butyrate, even though it’s 350 milligrams of the active CoreBiome and then 70% of that is seed oils. I just don’t want to put that in my body. I don’t know why they chose that, but maybe it’s changed.

Michael Roesslein:

Gotcha. Okay. Are these supplements used with kids, especially the ones on the spectrum, ADD, ADHD, autism spectrum? If yes, I guess smaller doses. Is there any practitioner I could contact that use these with special needs kids? I know a few practitioners at work with special needs kids exclusively that may or may not use these products that would know that that I can reach out to. But I don’t know if you have anybody in your network, Steve, that you know that works with kids.

Steven Wright:

No, not at the moment.

Michael Roesslein:

Or the products with kids. I don’t know how young they kids are, but if they can take pills-

Steven Wright:

There’s [crosstalk 01:10:04]-

Michael Roesslein:

HoloZyme can be sprinkled on food, right? Because this is another question, so-

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

… HoloZyme can be sprinkled on food, the butyrate and the HCL, no, because you don’t want HCL in your mouth and-

Steven Wright:

Right.

Michael Roesslein:

… the butyrate is probably in an enteric thing for a reason.

Steven Wright:

Yeah, yeah. Don’t open the butyric capsules. Yes, you could sprinkle-

Michael Roesslein:

We had someone do it. I got an email about that, actually. We had someone do it after the webinar, which in the webinar we explicitly made jokes about it and said, “Do not open these. It’s not good to eat. Doesn’t taste good.” And then we got an email, sure enough, because it’s like, don’t touch the hot thing and then they touched the hot thing and yeah, we got an email from somebody who cut one of those open and put it in their mouth and kids would be unhappy with you, especially kids on the spectrum who have tastes aversions and strong palettes. But there’s the liquid one from Pure Encapsulations that is a liquid that you said is pretty good. If there’s a kid and they can’t take capsules that or otherwise there’s no contraindications with kids with these though, any of these things.

Steven Wright:

I mean, no, but obviously you should work, kids and pregnant people are what the government does not allow for issues with. I can’t tell you because we haven’t actually studied them in kids and pregnant people, but work with a practitioner-

Michael Roesslein:

[crosstalk 01:11:24]. Yeah, yeah. Was that giant dose of tributyrin given to halt cancer cells or like lower inflammation? Two people asked what the context of that is? Why would high dose butyrin be give to-

Steven Wright:

Yeah, it was an oral dose study on stage four cancer folks because butyric acid has some really cool anti-cancer properties, but they were having a really hard time keeping the levels systemically long enough for it to maybe do anything and the results for cancer specifically were inconclusive. There is some cool research on colon cancer. This study was on more other solid state cancers, like breast and prostate and other things like that. Not a cancer sort of treatment, if you will.

Michael Roesslein:

Gotcha. If you have low motility issues like SIBO is butyrate alright since I heard it lowers motility? You talked about that it can have an inverse reaction. If you take one and you get slowed down, that’s probably a sign of a deficiency, when the dosing titration involves like increasing until you start slowing down. Do you have SIBO folks taking this? Any advice there? Is it going to make SIBO worse? I don’t.

Steven Wright:

No, no. Tributyrin, actually, the part of it that’s going to get released in the small intestine, is slightly antimicrobial. Actually, yeah, I would say like 20% to 30% of our customers are SIBO folks, whether they’re diarrhea or constipation dominate. It does seem to be very helpful for the SIBO folks. For the people who are very constipated. You do have to do this it seems like about an 8 to 12 week loading phase where basically what I tell them is start taking it and if you believe the science and you believe what I’m saying, give it a full 16 to 20 weeks. Basically, take one pill every three days and keep using your magnesium or your vitamin C or whatever you’re using to modify your bowels, try some HCL, whatever you need to keep regular. And then slowly around week eight, try to go up to one every other day.

            What we’re finding is there’s, I think, here’s my theory, it’s total theory. This is just based on working with people and observing people. But it appears that there’s like a deficiency where you’re inversely deficient and if you can build that reservoir of butyrate up over like 8 to 12 weeks, somewhere around that timeframe, we have a bunch of customers in our customer group who report having a switch over in their body where suddenly they can do two pills a day. These are people who are stuck on laxatives and then somewhere around like week 12, they can do two Tributyrin-X a day, all their pain is going away. Their inflammation’s going down, they’re using less laxative support.

            There is a really cool thing, I think, when you can get the body back, switched over to the right amount of butyrate. We also know from the research in constipation that butyrate production is low in constipation and it was a sodium butyrate study that the sodium butyrate was helpful for some percentage of those people. The study was only six weeks, I think and I’m talking about like 8 to 12 weeks minimum at a low dose before you start to escalate the dose. It’s a really cool thing. If you start doing that with people, please write in, please communicate with me. We’re still trying to understand this stuff. It’s just what we’ve observed so far.

Michael Roesslein:

Cool. Thanks for that. There’s a few questions. I didn’t even catch this, that you mentioned it, but there’s three questions about tributyrin and metabolism. You mentioned something, I guess, about butyrate and metabolism. You must have, but can you clarify how this will impact metabolism? Somebody else asked a question about tributyrin and metabolism. I must have missed the memo there. Did you say something related to that?

Steven Wright:

Well, I was just suggesting that colonocyte metabolism, metabolism is the act of making energy basically, and so colonocytes, they prefer butyric acid and oxygen to make their energy-

Michael Roesslein:

As their fuel.

Steven Wright:

Yeah.

Michael Roesslein:

Colonocytes, the cells in the colon, prefer butyric acid as fuel.

Steven Wright:

Right, Correct.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. If taking corticosteroids for Addison’s biological doses, can you take HCL Guard that was contraindicated?

Steven Wright:

It’s contraindicated, [Donna 01:16:01]. I mean, if you were able to do a study of your mucus membranes and you were clear, your mucus membranes were intact, then I don’t see the issue, but you’d want to be working with a practitioner. You’d want to have some data. Again, the reason why is not because the HCL does anything bad to corticosteroids is because corticosteroids have a mucus membrane disruption byproduct. That’s where the issue comes in. If you can verify you don’t have that cause of why corticosteroids are contraindicated, then I’m not your doctor, but maybe you can draw the line there and say, “I’d like to try it.”

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. Products dairy, grain, soy, gluten free across the board?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. It’s non-GMO, gluten, dairy free, all of them.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay.

Steven Wright:

Soy free as well.

Michael Roesslein:

Are your products available through any of the commercial supplement companies in their dispensaries or should practitioners contact you directly? What’s the best route there to do wholesale?

Steven Wright:

We do have wholesale rates and wholesale packages. We have a wholesale team now. Just contact us directly at healthygut.com/practitioner or support at Healthy Gut. We…

            (silence)

Michael Roesslein:

Uh-oh. What’s going on? Did the internet just end us? Yo, you have me, Steve’s frozen. No? Lost him. Okay. Audio’s back on. We’ll see. For right now, I forgot to mention this also, we are doing for non-practitioners, I just put a link in the chat. We’re doing a four or five day, 15% off our entire shop at Rebel Health Tribe sale, so anything in the retail shop, I think we’re going until Sunday. We’re not going to send this out until a couple days from now, but anybody on this webinar is going to get a little lead time, heads up-

Steven Wright:

Can you hear me now, Michael?

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, you just got back.

Steven Wright:

Okay.

Michael Roesslein:

I don’t know if that was me or you or who caused it or what happened, but in the chat they said they could see me, but I’m just announcing something I was supposed to say earlier and I forgot is that we have sale 15% off everything in our shop, which includes all the Healthy Gut products and everything else that’s in there. I just put a link and the code is [febsave15 01:19:01]. It’ll probably be through Sunday, I think, but if you want to stock up on some stuff, there’s free shipping over $100. You order two bottles of like literally anything, it’s free shipping and then 15% off. I also put the link in the chat to Healthy Gut. You said, healthygut.com/practitioner-

Steven Wright:

Practitioners.

Michael Roesslein:

Practitioners.

Steven Wright:

Practitioners.

Michael Roesslein:

There we go. Well, it’s one or the other, but regardless, is there an email address for that situation?

Steven Wright:

Yeah. Just email and support at Healthy Gut if you want a wholesale account. We do not have any partnerships with any of the big dispensaries. They take a massive cut of your profits and we are already a very high cost operation with the quality standards that we have.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah, I expected they expect quite a bit to be listed on there. I put the link to our shop, the coupon for 15% off, the URL to their site for practitioners, and then the email Healthy Gut for practitioners. [Jenny 01:20:07], the recording will be sent out. You’ll get it probably tomorrow. Usually, it’s two days, but now this is in the morning. I’m pretty sure it will be able to go out whatever day is tomorrow. Today’s Thursday, Friday. Somebody’s asking a question about connection between tributyrin, gut, and brain and neurotransmitters. Did you mention something like that or did they pick that up about butyrate elsewhere?

Steven Wright:

I think they’re picking that up somewhere else.

Michael Roesslein:

Do you know anything to speak to that? Okay. Do you know any-

Steven Wright:

I mean, it’s really cool, it’s really interesting research. We know that there’s a connection through either the portal vein or the vagus nerve or both from the gut brain. We know that all the tight junctions are the same in the blood brain barrier as well as in the gut brain or in the gut barrier. Anything that affects the gut effects the brain and vice versa. I am not aware exactly how tributyrin or butyric acid would support neurotransmitters at the moment. The theory, I think, is more around lowered inflammation in the brain and intactness of the blood brain barrier as a version of that.

            There’s ongoing research right now in all types of neurodegenerative cases, brain cases with butyric acid supplements of all types. The jury’s still out, but again, the only thing that I can conclusively say so far is that people with sleep disorders around lack of deep or REM sleep seem to get help when they track them on the Oura rings or WHOOP bands or Garmin bands. But that’s a case by case space list, there’s nothing in the research yet on humans and there’s not thing that Tributyrin-X does specifically yet for the brain that we can say.

Michael Roesslein:

Okay. Would a product like Oxy-Powder, which is ozonated magnesium interfere with butyrate, since it is an O2 product? I would guess that the ozone and the oxygenated portion of that will be absorbed well before it gets to the large intestine because you wouldn’t want a bunch of oxygen in the large intestine. That would be my uneducated response. Do you know anything there that would contradict what I said or have any sort of-

Steven Wright:

Well, I know that [crosstalk 01:22:34]-

Michael Roesslein:

Oxy-Powders, I’ve never used those.

Steven Wright:

Yeah, I’ve never used them personally, either. I’ve always used magnesium glycinates and vitamin C powders, but my understanding is that ozone and oxygen are extremely different. They might be very similar in their chemical structure, but how they interact with the environment as well as with your body are extremely different. I don’t the science behind the ozonation or the oxygenation. I don’t know if that’s marketing or if that’s true science and so I can’t really comment.

Michael Roesslein:

Gotcha. Okay. And then final thing, HoloZymes, and I guess this would be in the systemic aspect of it, have an effect on mycotoxins? I’ve been down the mold rabbit hole a lot. My wife’s had mold illness a couple times, mold-triggered autoimmune flares. I’ve hosted many interviews and webinars and presentations regarding mold. I can speak to that a little that systemic enzymes are usually part of a much, much, much more robust approach to mold toxicity and mycotoxins regarding support and alleviation and clearing and detox and all of that stuff. But on a systemic aspect, the enzymes help remove things from the blood and remove just things from places where they shouldn’t be. Do you know of any research specific to enzymes in mycotoxins? I don’t.

Steven Wright:

No, other than a body that’s suffering with mycotoxins, like you said, needs a lot of different types of support. Usually, systemic enzyme support for mycotoxins or mold is helpful at some point in the recovery. We do have a strong populations of customers who have mycotoxin issues because a big portion of our customers are histamine intolerant, folks who have really bad reactions to everything, and usually the root cause of bad histamine stuff or at least one of the main root causes of histamine-related stuff is mold and mycotoxins.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. Okay. I think we did it and tons of info. Thanks, Steve. This is going to be a huge resource for any of the practitioners that come on our site and find the products that way. We’ll put links, too, might as well, just on our site, wherever we have these products and these videos linked. We’ll put a link, I’ll find your URL, and I’ll stick that on there and I’ll put a little, I don’t know, green because that’s your jam with this brand, I think, banner that says like, practitioner click here and it’ll take you to their site for practitioners signups. We’ll put their email, we’ll make it really easy for you. We’ll send that out in the email that we send this recording out in as well. I’d love to get your products in more offices of more practitioners and more dispensaries. It looks like… Oh, thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Great turnout. Actually, we had, I think, 80-something people on live at, I don’t know, what time is it? 8:00 in the morning Pacific, 9:00 Mountain, 10:00 Central [crosstalk 01:25:46]-

Steven Wright:

Yeah, it’s a little later now.

Michael Roesslein:

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but that’s great for super early in the morning. Enjoy your conference. Good luck with the ice storm. Thanks everybody for being here. It’s always fun whenever we connect with Steve and maybe next time you will be in your home and we can do a recording from your home. Safe travels.

Steven Wright:

[crosstalk 01:26:08].

Michael Roesslein:

Thanks everybody. Talk soon.

Steven Wright:

Thanks, Michael. Enjoy, Italy.

Michael Roesslein:

I [inaudible 01:26:14]-

PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [01:26:13]

RHT Gut Repair & Microbiome Optimization Guide

10 Steps to Repair Your Gut, Optimize Your Digestion, and Build a Healthy Microbiome!

Gut Microbiome & Digestion Products

Get Social

Recent Podcasts

Recent Courses

Brain & Nervous System Masterclass

Brain & Nervous System Masterclass

16 Leading Experts Share Cutting-Edge Science, Effective Practices, and Clinical Strategies to Optimize Brain & Nervous System Health in Kids and Adults

Wellness Optimization Series

Wellness Optimization Series

Learn about the immune system and what you can do to optimize wellness. This series provides valuable information on how an individual can be proactive during a time of crisis

AutoImmune Masterclass

2 Masterclass Bundle

Learn all about Autoimmune Diseases with 17 of the worlds leading experts and Optimize Your Microbiome To Radically Improve Your Health And Well Being!

AutoImmune Masterclass

Autoimmune Masterclass

Autoimmune Masterclass brings together 17 of the world’s leading doctors, researchers, and experts on autoimmune diseases who each present their own mini-class on autoimmunity.

Get the RHT Newsletter

Be the first to get access to special offers, new podcasts, courses, products and events from Rebel Health Tribe. 

Facebook
Twitter
Pinterest
LinkedIn
Reddit
WhatsApp
Telegram
StumbleUpon

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Post comment